SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

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Ultraviolet
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 3:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: UltravioletQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaIt seems like it is envy from what I've seen and that's a far more socially destructive "deadly sin" than greed is.The data on charitable giving (in the US) show that people on the right are twice as altruistic as people on the left. For the most part, the left want government to confiscate and redistribute other people's wealth, not their own.Yeah, because the whole fight over the tax privileges is to have more money for charity donations...Or if one sees government as wasting society's resources and creating self-serving permanent underclass of unproductive people who conveniently vote the left back in power.So we were talking about the productive right-wing, OK. If they made what they have all by themselves why don't they not only stop paying taxes at all but also stop using public roads, air space, getting involved in politics, ...? - the richer you are, the more effectively you can exploit it. If you can grantee that not a penny from my taxes supports their business, but it funds e.g. small business or public schools - fine by me, they can stop paying.
Last edited by Ultraviolet on October 7th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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katastrofa
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 3:51 pm

"If they made what they have all by themselves"Almost none of them did.
 
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fulmerspot
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 3:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaOr if one sees government as wasting society's resources and creating self-serving permanent underclass of unproductive people who conveniently vote the left back in power.Once you convince yourself that the poor are an "underclass" (or "Untermenschen", if you prefer), it's easy to be right-wing. Edit: and it's this "underclass" which is the most productive segment of the society. They make things. Build homes. Provide services. The 1% sits in the offices shuffling money from one pocket to another, skimming a fee for themselves. They are truly "unproductive".To Paraphrase:Once you convince yourself that the rich are an "overclass" (or "Undeserving", if you prefer), it's easy to be left-wing. Königspudel
 
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Ultraviolet
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 4:02 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: fulmerspotQuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaOr if one sees government as wasting society's resources and creating self-serving permanent underclass of unproductive people who conveniently vote the left back in power.Once you convince yourself that the poor are an "underclass" (or "Untermenschen", if you prefer), it's easy to be right-wing. Edit: and it's this "underclass" which is the most productive segment of the society. They make things. Build homes. Provide services. The 1% sits in the offices shuffling money from one pocket to another, skimming a fee for themselves. They are truly "unproductive".To Paraphrase:Once you convince yourself that the rich are an "overclass" (or "Undeserving", if you prefer), it's easy to be left-wing. KönigspudelI guess it is - I see no reason to think that "the rich" deserve more.
 
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Gamal
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 4:26 pm

Greed is the background for conservatives and envy for leftists. Greed is individual and egoistic and envy easy to share with others and social. That's why leftists have more power than they deserve.
 
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Ultraviolet
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 6:25 pm

Last edited by Ultraviolet on October 7th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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tagoma
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 8th, 2013, 6:33 pm

Strangely enough (?), every reply in this thread is about politicians running after their personnal wealth.
 
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exneratunrisk
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 5:52 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: exneratunriskBecause altruism ist the most intelligent form of selfishness.More theoretically speaking: avoid the disadvantages of vertical community ideologies - thats most destructive one is fascism. (Whenever a few percent took home the largest share of income (1928, 1 percent took home 19.6% - 2012, 19.35%) - a great recession followed, and the rich have taken the huge fall. This seems to be quite stupid?)Farmer, you seem to analyze the foodweb of all animals, by watching the eating behavior of the dog of your neighbor?But I know in this discussions this is the guideI'm not sure what your point is Similar to your graphic, but with an interpretation The 1 % took home ?The question: is it wise to suffer from an abruptly downturn AND cause an avalanche that harms the whole community?
 
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exneratunrisk
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Joined: April 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 6:00 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaIt seems like it is envy from what I've seen and that's a far more socially destructive "deadly sin" than greed is.The data on charitable giving (in the US) show that people on the right are twice as altruistic as people on the left. For the most part, the left want government to confiscate and redistribute other people's wealth, not their own.Yes it is in a singular view, greed is absolute and envy relative. Relative is worse. Bit if greed is paired with fear it may cause avalanches - and it does. Envy and fear does usually not come as pair?Charity is not altruistic, IMO. To give alms is not altruistic - maybe altero-centric in a small interval of time. Billy Holiday is right: God bless the child that got his own
 
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exneratunrisk
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 6:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulI very much agree with the envy explanation.I also find lefties to be severely lacking in self knowledge. So they don't know how envious they are. And if they don't understand their own motives they can't really understand the motives of others, and hence fail to understand how the world works.One of my favourite examples was Tony Blair 'negotiating' over doctors hours. In return for not having to work at weekends doctors were paid...more! Not sure he really understood how haggling works.* You can date the collapse of the NHS to that stupidity.P*One of the great things about the US is they know how to haggle and never take offence. You can't haggle with a Brit, they just go quiet and you never hear from them again."Do not understand ..." interestingly enough an increasing number of neoclassical macro economists take the DSGE (derived from Keynes' models) as the new model to look into when recommending principle actions. This happened quietly.Political theories? There are not so much from conservatives, IMO, because they usually want to continue status quo.p.s. but more importantly, it may be not a bad idea to distinguish between retro-left and left? T Blair? He wanted to become a political pop star. I do not see much left approaches in his actions.I distinguish between conservatives and ultra-conservatives (and clearly extreme rights).
 
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Gamal
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why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 7:27 am

What is extreme right?Was German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) left or right?
 
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exneratunrisk
Posts: 3559
Joined: April 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 7:54 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalWhat is extreme right?Was German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) left or right?Yes THE prototype transforming into NSDAP (but they never were a workers party, if you wanted to suggest), but there are prominent extreme right fractions in Fidesz - Hun, FPOe - Austria, Front National France ... NDP in Germany is Neo-Nazi.
 
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exneratunrisk
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Joined: April 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 8:02 am

A little about wisdom and understanding how the world runs
 
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Gamal
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Joined: February 26th, 2004, 8:41 am

why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 8:09 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: exneratunriskQuoteOriginally posted by: GamalWhat is extreme right?Was German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) left or right?Yes THE prototype transforming into NSDAP (but they never were a workers party, if you wanted to suggest), but there are prominent extreme right fractions in Fidesz - Hun, FPOe - Austria, Front National France ... NDP in Germany is Neo-Nazi.Exneratunrisk, as an Austrian you should know a bit the history of Germany, Austrians were Germans quite a long time. Of course NSDAP was a lower-class/workers party.
 
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exneratunrisk
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Joined: April 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

why are some guys left-wing?

October 9th, 2013, 10:30 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalQuoteOriginally posted by: exneratunriskQuoteOriginally posted by: GamalWhat is extreme right?Was German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) left or right?Yes THE prototype transforming into NSDAP (but they never were a workers party, if you wanted to suggest), but there are prominent extreme right fractions in Fidesz - Hun, FPOe - Austria, Front National France ... NDP in Germany is Neo-Nazi.Exneratunrisk, as an Austrian you should know a bit the history of Germany, Austrians were Germans quite a long time. Of course NSDAP was a lower-class/workers party.Whether I am Austrian or not is not relevant (I feel like a world citizen). Historians "worldwide" have analyzed that the source of the German fascism was a fiendish mix of members of the education bourgeoisie, romantic nature admirers and admirers of the light and pure nordic gods. Workers support was a fake from the beginning.This is not to excuse the masses. They participated the horror regime and sang their murderous songs. Before the Nazi lead, in Austria the conservatives wanted to prohibit the social democrats and used the "Heimwehr" to reject "class struggle" - this time was known as Austrofascism. In a civil war the social democratic "Schutzbund" lost 1934 against Heimwehr and the army. After, AT voted for the Integration into Germany, strongly forced by the Nazi.But I am afraid, you do not want historical facts - you want to suggest the right==left hide and seek game?p.s. and this all is completely irrelevant to the question: why people are left-wing in the 21st century? One can say: all stupid, all blind, all infamous, ... OK. But wrong facts, bad arguments and faulty logic make the discussion boring.
Last edited by exneratunrisk on October 8th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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