SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

 
User avatar
Nonius
Topic Author
Posts: 5115
Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 1:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: James"he passed himself off as being an expert in philosophy, Latin, and Greek."I disagree with this charecterization, I think he holds himself out to be a student of those subjects, as Socrates would."Thirdly, he never contributed anything, to my knowledge, in the General Topics or Technical Section."My contributions also are thin on the ground there. As are a lot of folks.The reason is I am a student of lie algebra, not an expert (like you). I am an expert in some things in finance (boring to most everyone here, but they pay me to be a Prof. so what am I gonna do? throw the money away 'cause I don't know as much about mersene twisters on obscure theoretical surfaces? Plus, I mysteriously, dumb as I am, I generate Sharpe and Information ratio beating alpha every year...I'd rather be lucky than smart!).Some folks don't post in those sections because others say it so much better. I can understand a lecture on Vega and Rega by Marco Avellenada with the best of them, even ask him a good question. Explaining what I understand to someone else is beyond my skill set. While explaining what I know well (and again, dull to y'all) is easy. Aaron has a particular gift for lucidity, as does Paul, Johnny, and a host of others, my friend Collector, Omar, etc.Excluding or pounding someone because they don't know as much as you has downside risk for you....there is always someone smarter than you who could treat you the same way. Jim Simon is famous for being kind and encouraging to those of less mathmatical skill than himself, since that is nearly everyone on the planet. One would do well to adopt his model.Off to teach my students about Discounted Cash Flow. Their first finance class. In one month they will be a Black-Scholes. After that, watch your back, I release these alpha snipers onto your markets friends.James, you are noble to stick up for Hamilton.Ok, fair enough...but, there is a difference between a) humbly trying to learn from technical and general posts in finance and keeping quiet.b) Not contributing anything at all to the subject matter at hand, then pontificating on philosophy with unclear posts and references, then patronizing members with (not so subtle) insults, and THEN (and this is the hypocrisy), criticizing others for acting childish on the board. I am not pounding on Hamilton for what he does or does not know. I am pounding on Hamilton for precisely the characteristics outlined in b) above. Ok, it was a strong and exaggerated statement to say that he passed himself off as being an expert at Greek. But, just as bad, he reminds me of a child who has learned something new in school and who goes home to his/her parents to say "na na na na na, I bet you can't tell me who founded Troy." A student of Philosophy, I would think, would want to convey what he/she is learning in simple English. I have not seen this in Hamilton's posts, and I have read many of them. What I have seen is convoluted phrases spruced up with a few fancy words and links to websites that often, upon further analysis, bear no relation to the subject matter at hand. I will find for you the reference to Emerson he once made, which absolutely had no connection to what we were talking about. Anyway, there are hundreds and hundreds of others. It is easy to locate them.
 
User avatar
Nonius
Topic Author
Posts: 5115
Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 1:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnai find it curious how people get annoyed with others on the board. Don't like Hammy -- then don't read his posts -- you are not paying for the board space in the off topics. The tread got boring? Start another one. Same goes for anyone who annoys someone else. This is Hyde Park and a first amendment stadium in my opinion. In my memory people were ganging up several times on Hammy, Mob, and once on Marsden. Whatever is the extent i share their views, i am totally for leaving these guys be and talk freely.Yep, you sound like me indeed....I think I wrote that once....I don't dislike Hammy, I want him to come back. I would like him to explain himself more.
 
User avatar
mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 1:54 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: NoniusQuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaYep, you sound like me indeed....I think I wrote that once....I don't dislike Hammy, I want him to come back. I would like him to explain himself more.This would be clear to everybody who may read your signature,.......
Last edited by mencey on September 11th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Nonius
Topic Author
Posts: 5115
Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 2:04 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: NoniusQuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaYep, you sound like me indeed....I think I wrote that once....I don't dislike Hammy, I want him to come back. I would like him to explain himself more.This would be clear to everybody who may read your signature,....... you know what, I kick myself for getting sucked into critisising Hammy on this thread. It wasn't originally meant to be a criticism....and Zerdna has certainly pointed out a certain hypocricy in my criticism...anyway...it's late, and the hangover from the "Collector-Fest" is weighing heavy on my head.
 
User avatar
Marsden
Posts: 3829
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 2:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnai find it curious how people get annoyed with others on the board. Don't like Hammy -- then don't read his posts -- you are not paying for the board space in the off topics. The tread got boring? Start another one. Same goes for anyone who annoys someone else. This is Hyde Park and a first amendment stadium in my opinion. In my memory people were ganging up several times on Hammy, Mob, and once on Marsden. Whatever is the extent i share their views, i am totally for leaving these guys be and talk freely.The shortcoming of your suggestion, Zerdna, is that most people in the world and even on this forum are not very bright, and can confuse stupid things that people write with sound reason. My first run-in with the Hamster was when he was making one of his bloated, devoid-of-fact-and-even-of-argument pronouncements about how Iraq's report on its lack of WMD was all lies, and someone even commented that Mob was an intellectual (Clever? Yes. Intellectual? God no! Mob can't even spell "intellectual.").About a lot of things, sure, who gives a damn what anyone else says or believes? But not very bright people get sucked into the coziness of accepting as true things that are repeated often enough, or things that are presented under a veneer of reasonableness. There's no hope that people will stop being not very bright, but it is sometimes possible to mercilessly slap them out of their cozy acceptance of nonsense. And sometimes that's the right thing to do, lest they start goose-stepping into yet another novel wickedness.Hamilton always had his f***ing agenda. Of course -- unlike Socrates -- he would never argue directly for it, but would instead float his stupid insinuations and reading lists. Stupid people were always in danger of confusing the fact that he could name several dead Greek people with the possibility that he was not an idiot, which of course is exactly what he was. And so, in order to make the world safe for stupid people (or, more accurately, to make a world full of stupid people safe for everyone), it was necessary to mercilessly slap Hamilton around to the point that even stupid people ought to have been able to recognize that there was nothing at all to him.But I'd just as soon have him shut the f*** up, which hopefully is what he has finally done.
 
User avatar
leibniz99
Posts: 27
Joined: August 16th, 2003, 12:59 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 2:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: James"he passed himself off as being an expert in philosophy, Latin, and Greek."I disagree with this charecterization, I think he holds himself out to be a student of those subjects, as Socrates would."Thirdly, he never contributed anything, to my knowledge, in the General Topics or Technical Section."My contributions also are thin on the ground there. As are a lot of folks.The reason is I am a student of lie algebra, not an expert (like you). I am an expert in some things in finance (boring to most everyone here, but they pay me to be a Prof. so what am I gonna do? throw the money away 'cause I don't know as much about mersene twisters on obscure theoretical surfaces? Plus, I mysteriously, dumb as I am, I generate Sharpe and Information ratio beating alpha every year...I'd rather be lucky than smart!).Some folks don't post in those sections because others say it so much better. I can understand a lecture on Vega and Rega by Marco Avellenada with the best of them, even ask him a good question. Explaining what I understand to someone else is beyond my skill set. While explaining what I know well (and again, dull to y'all) is easy. Aaron has a particular gift for lucidity, as does Paul, Johnny, and a host of others, my friend Collector, Omar, etc.Excluding or pounding someone because they don't know as much as you has downside risk for you....there is always someone smarter than you who could treat you the same way. Jim Simon is famous for being kind and encouraging to those of less mathmatical skill than himself, since that is nearly everyone on the planet. One would do well to adopt his model.Off to teach my students about Discounted Cash Flow. Their first finance class. In one month they will be a Black-Scholes. After that, watch your back, I release these alpha snipers onto your markets friends.the think about Hamilton was that he was arrogant and patronizing. Hardly the persona of a humble student, nor in my experience the persona of an expert mathematician -- Fields medalists are sometimes arrogant but I've never found one to be patronizing.
 
User avatar
mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 3:01 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: leibniz99[the think about Hamilton was that he was arrogant and patronizing. Hardly the persona of a humble student, nor in my experience the persona of an expert mathematician -- Fields medalists are sometimes arrogant but I've never found one to be patronizing.Well, I think Hamilton never sold himself as being an expert mathematician, but a person who works in finance. This could be being a teacher in finance, a trader or a CPA, who knows. He defined himself as an (.......) polymath, autodidact propensity to study the seven liberal arts: (Trivium + Quadrivium ). That's quite different from a "humble student"From my point of view a mathematician who only is interested in mathematics and measures everything by numbers is a quite narrowminded person. Oposite of that is the mathematician who is also interested in theology, philosophy or even in art. And I think that in those subjects Hamilton was a good "counterpart", able to discuss about or recomend to a newbies in the field (like myself) the Thomist german philosopher Josef Pieper or about the catholist theologian Hans Urs Von Balthasaar.
Last edited by mencey on September 11th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Nonius
Topic Author
Posts: 5115
Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 3:42 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: leibniz99[the think about Hamilton was that he was arrogant and patronizing. Hardly the persona of a humble student, nor in my experience the persona of an expert mathematician -- Fields medalists are sometimes arrogant but I've never found one to be patronizing.Well, I think Hamilton never sold himself as being an expert mathematician, but a person who works in finance. This could be being a teacher in finance, a trader or a CPA, who knows. He defined himself as an (.......) polymath, autodidact propensity to study the seven liberal arts: (Trivium + Quadrivium ). That's quite different from a "humble student"From my point of view a mathematician who only is interested in mathematics and measures everything by numbers is a quite narrowminded person. Oposite of that is the mathematician who is also interested in theology, philosophy or even in art. And I think that in those subjects Hamilton was a good "counterpart", able to discuss about or recomend to a newbies in the field (like myself) the Thomist german philosopher Josef Pieper or about the catholist theologian Hans Urs Von Balthasaar.Actually, Mencey, Math is much closer to Philosophy, Theology and Art than you realize....secondly, mathematicians do not measure everything by numbers....
 
User avatar
farmer
Posts: 13462
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 4:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Marsdenmost people in the world and even on this forum are not very bright, and can confuse stupid things that people write with sound reason.Iraq's report on its lack of WMD was all lies,There's no hope that people will stop being not very bright, but it is sometimes possible to mercilessly slap them out of their cozy acceptance of nonsense. And sometimes that's the right thing to do, lest they start goose-stepping into yet another novel wickedness.And so, in order to make the world safe for stupid people (or, more accurately, to make a world full of stupid people safe for everyone), it was necessary to mercilessly slap Hamilton around to the point that even stupid people ought to have been able to recognize that there was nothing at all to him.Fascinating! Which of the following statements, if any, Mr. Marsden, would you agree with?A) The vast majority of mankind is but grass in the wind, tilting towards good or evil inclinations, and then suddenly back the other way, by the slightest push. A minuscule enlightened minority of men are the pushers, towards both good and evil.B) Given that man is born in original competition for mates and resources, every man is inherently evil from the vantage point of his fellow man. The state of trade, where even the weak can withhold from the strong, is an unnatural state of goodness which man must be pushed into.C) It is possible, in fact likely, for the good shepherds to beat the evil shepherds in the tug of war for the minds of men, based on some principle of economics or physics. Moreover, this victory is self-perpetuating, to the extent power can be channeled to secure more power. Once they have won, the good can set up institutions to enforce the good, which enlightened institutions can be insulated permanently from the swaying fads of the mob.D) The incentive for man to do good lies in the incentive of the good shepherd to enforce the good. As such, men can only be spared from evil to the extent institutions of enforcement are established, and then evil shepherds are locked out of these institutions.E) Man cannot be trusted to be self-supervising, nor to enter into contracts or arrangements with his fellow man, absent the intervention and approval of an enlightened third party. A perennial sucker, man is unqualified to choose his services, associations, and trading partners using the wisdom of his own experience, lessons and traditions. He will be forever fooled by mutating facades of brand names which only good shepherds are immune to and can sort between. Fortunately, good shepherds can be everywhere at all times, and substitute their own decisions for the thousands of tiny foolishnesses which make up the day of the average fool.F) Evil can quicly take root anywhere, in the willing soil that is the mind of the average man, except a sterile soil can be established in a central authority of good-doing shepherds. Therefore, the growth of impetus must be weeded out and permitted only in the sheltered temple. Members of the temple shall be selected based on the resistance of their minds to evil, and on the susceptibility of their minds to the clearly-recgonizable (to the enlightened) virus of goodness.F) There are not only 1) enough enlightened shepherds who both a) can recognize between good and evil, and b) have been born with an internal seed of good by some flip of the coin, but also 2) some mechanism exists by which the good shepherds can discover the individual circumstances and supervise the activities of the mob, even though the numbers of the mob may be enormous compared to the number of shepherds.G) A multi-layer management structure can be established which will pass down the incentive to do good to each individual, not unlike a tree tranmits water to its leaves. The original wellspring of good in which the roots sit was put their by higher beings, and exists only in the ethers, where it is beyond the reach of and pollution by mortal inclinations.H) This management structure can both 1) discover the good - that being the human needs of the benighted members of the masses - and 2) coordinate the activities of these individuals to satisfy one another's needs more nimbly, and with more detail, than these indiviudals could transmit their needs to one another, absent the enlightened overseer.I) The only people who should be allowed in government are those 1) who were born enlighetned, and with an internal glowing ember good emanating through them from the ethers, or 2) those who have been slapped. To the extent the average man is permitted even to vote, he must first be slapped.J) Man alone is evil, and lost in a wasteland of evil ideas. It is only when the inclinations of man are channeled through a popular institution that they come out the other end good.K) Thanks to quantum uncertainty, there exists somewhere in a secret forest a spring of good. There is enough good there that it can be used as the source of all enlightenement in decision making, and all the opinions of men can be discarded, ignored, and drowned out. It is not necessary to push this good into men, and through them into democratic insitutions, when the hearts of men can be bypassed, and the spring can be diverted to flow directly into the instituions of enforcement, and from there to the actions of men, despite their evil hearts.L) Evil is more likely to arise in spontaneous inreractions between men, than in interactions between men and governments. Man is more capable of achieving evil ends on his own, and when it is a competition of all individuals against all individuals, than when the evil inclinations are channeled through the lightening rod of central management, which magically transforms them into good. Men are less evil when voting for strongmen, for instance, than when choosing whom to hire or buy their products from.M) It is only as an individual that man is evil. Decisions made collectively, and with the power of the mob behind them, are more likely to be good. It is therefore only necessary that the good shepherds synchronize the mob into a single aim, for theri aims to become good. The more people agree on something, the more likely it is not only to be enforced, but to be good.N) Fortunately, man as an individual is only capable of enforcing his individualist evil on a tiny, insignificant scale. He is at all times in competition for associations with other men, against other men, to where he cannot hope for his personal evil to win the day in its original, unadulterated form.O) The freedom of men to do evil lies not in their freedom to do it as individuals, but in their freedom to channel and concentrate their will into collectives. The freedom for individuals to goosestep, and for each individual to observe and attempt to synchronize his steps with the steps of his neighbor is not enough. It is only in the establishment of institutions designed to enforce good that evil can be picked up and detected, as with an antenna, achieve critical mass, and be transmitted.P) The only way to enforce good is through institutions of enforcement. Without such institutions, both good and evil lack the self-organizing momentum to ever form even an fleeting island in a sea of systemic forces. Good and evil become lost in the rat race. The competing bits and fragemnts of good and evil can never achive coherence without an enlightened shepherd.Q) Every man would be an easy mark for purveyors of evil inclination, and would become a purveyor himself, were not enlightened institutions established to deprive man of this freedom.R) Competition in the arena of ideas must be regulated by enlightened referees, if not outright prevented, lest evil win out.S) There is no need for feedback from the conditions of the masses to the decisions of the enlightened leaders. The source of the leader's disposition to do good and to amend wrongs comes not from any cost to him of bad outcomes suffered and borne by the masses, but from a secret wellspring of good. This wellspring acts as a thermometer, sometimes even labeling as good an outcome which the masses themselves consider to be bad.T) Good does not arise from feedback loops between men, each reporting to another his tastes and distastes, and each judging and rewarding his neighbor's actions. Rather, such feedback loops only serve to recycle evil. It is only by the removal of all feedback that the good can be enabled to flow freely. Men spontaneously organize themselves to evil ends. Anything occurring spontaneously, and without conscious contrivance or direction, is evil. Any self-regulating feedback structure emerging between men can become hijacked by evil. Molecules, and patterns of wildlife populations, are evil.U) Man was designed to survive in a small tribe, or in the commune that is the family. It is only in this circumstance that his instincts can be expected to guide him correctly in choices between right and wrong. He wil always do evil to other tribes, or to people with whom he is not face-to-face, no matter how, nor through what institution, his decisions are channeled.V) Some smart people are so smart as to be above evil.W) An individual man operates not based on external incentives, but on internal disposition. And nor do men operating based on external incentives survive at a higher rate, such that the surviving pool of men would be disproportionately composed of men operating under incentive, even if the original pool was moslty composed of men following disposition, whether towards good or evil.X) Whether good or evil men survive is independent of the incentives created by a system. It is not possible for men satisfying the needs of their neighbors to a greater or lesser degree, to be more or less likely to survive in one economic system versus another. Rather, it is the absence of creative destruction, and the insulation from systemic forces, which allows the good to survive.Y) A scientific apparatus can be devised such that any time a slap is delivered, a scientist so trained can determine the original root cause of that slap, whether it was sparked by the heart of God, or was at the end of an Earthly chain of cause and effect, originating in the evil hearts of men. The former is not only preferable, but possible.Z) In fact, the most important service a community can provide to its individual members is not to protect the property rights of the weak against the strong, and of the industrious against the unproductive, so as to integrate and secure the cooperation of all. Rather, the role of the community and, more specifically of the enlightened subset, is to slap the individual, out of an overriding concern with the contents of his mind. The overriding moral is neither 1) that morals selected by experience should be inherited, nor B) that private property should be protected, but rather that C) the enlightened should slap the benighted, even if there is no experience recorded in either genes nor religious text, but only in their own pompous confidence, to prove that they are good rather than evil. In fact, the antidote to nationalistic socialism is not the fragmentation and dissipation of man's evil will through individualism, but mind control.farmer
Last edited by farmer on September 11th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Marsden
Posts: 3829
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 5:06 pm

None of them, really.
 
User avatar
Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 12th, 2003, 8:39 pm

Well, possibly having more than a little to do with Hamilton leaving My bags were packed, and I was about to board the Concorde, when the Managementpaged me on the airport PA at La Guardia [or was it JFK?] to respond to this.Wave files attached.
 
User avatar
kutilya
Posts: 375
Joined: March 1st, 2002, 8:28 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 14th, 2003, 9:40 am

Last edited by kutilya on March 3rd, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Beavis
Posts: 1205
Joined: June 24th, 2003, 5:04 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 14th, 2003, 3:03 pm

Hamilton - Stop wasting everyone's time. Posting waves of Daffy Duck is certainly engrossing, but leaves little room for a follow up.
 
User avatar
Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 14th, 2003, 4:37 pm

Stop wasting everyone's timeOur next contestant is Miss New Jersey. Representing the Moral Minority here on Off Topic. Please step up to the microphone and share a few thoughts on achieving world peace in our lifetime.I will be right back. I have a few more wave files to dig up.
 
User avatar
Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

What in the f*ck happened to Hamilton?

September 15th, 2003, 3:30 am

My spider sense is tingling. LongTheta must be lurking on the forumsomewhere. The fellow who caused MobPsycho to flee, taking all ofhis best material with him. Thankfully, LongTheta also erased all theevidence of his tete a tete with MP.
ABOUT WILMOTT

PW by JB

Wilmott.com has been "Serving the Quantitative Finance Community" since 2001. Continued...


Twitter LinkedIn Instagram

JOBS BOARD

JOBS BOARD

Looking for a quant job, risk, algo trading,...? Browse jobs here...


GZIP: On