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tagoma
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Posts: 18069
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 7:17 am

Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
Which one are you using?

(I assume you are talking about the watch, but not which colleague)
The watch is the Forerunner235 model.

Nice!  Monitoring exercise both during and after can be quite useful both for refining technique (i've learned how to go up and down hills without much variation in heartrate) and tracking progress.

I have never time myself or whatever before. Wearing that watch makes a difference. It is mercyless with its beep and time/km on the last km every single km!! BTW, I have learnt quite a lot during my 1st training run with it yesterday (24.5km, 1st half uphill to the nearest ski resort, 2nd half same way back home, total elevation gain 320m, no warm-up), e.g. I have realized that any ascending elevation loses you a lot of time, and that elevation is asymetrical in the sense that climbing up loses you way more time that seconds gained when it goes down.
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 1:35 pm

tagoma wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:
(I assume you are talking about the watch, but not which colleague)
The watch is the Forerunner235 model.

Nice!  Monitoring exercise both during and after can be quite useful both for refining technique (i've learned how to go up and down hills without much variation in heartrate) and tracking progress.

I have never time myself or whatever before. Wearing that watch makes a difference. It is mercyless with its beep and time/km on the last km every single km!! BTW, I have learnt quite a lot during my 1st training run with it yesterday (24.5km, 1st half uphill to the nearest ski resort, 2nd half same way back home, total elevation gain 320m, no warm-up), e.g. I have realized that any ascending elevation loses you a lot of time, and that elevation is asymetrical in the sense that climbing up loses you way more time that seconds gained when it goes down.
Indeed!

The way up involves an effort to overcome gravity which is linear in altitude. But the way down involves an effort to overcome air resistance which is the square of velocity. If you have the capacity for a little extra effort, it's better to expend it on the uphill than the downhill.

If you redo this run several times and test different allocations of effort, you can plot a curve of total time as a function of % of time required to get to the top. It will probably be a concave bathtub curve showing that it's possible to push too hard to the top and possible to save too much from the second half.

Then there's a lot you can learn from heartrate in terms of both short-term (managing a run) and long-term (monitoring improvements). For long-distance events, I use heartrate alerts to tell me if I'm pushing too hard or slacking.
 
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tw
Posts: 868
Joined: May 10th, 2002, 3:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
Indeed!

The way up involves an effort to overcome gravity which is linear in altitude.



F=m.g ?
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 2:42 pm

tw wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:


F=m.g ?

Yes! And the total energy output required to get up the hill is m*g*h with the total energy input being higher due to body mechanics and efficiency issues.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
tw wrote:

F=m.g ?

Yes!  And the total energy output required to get up the hill is m*g*h with the total energy input being higher due to body mechanics and efficiency issues.

We don't have these problems here.
 
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tw
Posts: 868
Joined: May 10th, 2002, 3:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 3:09 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
tw wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:


F=m.g ?

Yes! And the total energy output required to get up the hill is m*g*h with the total energy input being higher due to body mechanics and efficiency issues.



Ah apologies, I thought you were implying gravity was altitude dependent. My error!
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 3:24 pm

Cuchulainn wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
tw wrote:

F=m.g ?

Yes!  And the total energy output required to get up the hill is m*g*h with the total energy input being higher due to body mechanics and efficiency issues.

We don't have these problems here.
So true! There are no hills but sometimes there's a long detour to get across a canal! ;)
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 3:47 pm

someone from florida I knew in college used to say he did hill workouts on highway overpasses

you dutch could use canal bridges
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

April 14th, 2018, 4:13 pm

ppauper wrote:
someone from florida I knew in college used to say he did hill workouts on highway overpasses

you dutch could use canal bridges
At the last MiamiMan half iron races, the winds were running about 15-20 mph on the bicycle course. The locals called them "Florida's Hills."

(Winds are another reason to use heart rate rather than pace to manage effort during a long-distance race. If you try to maintain "race pace" in a headwind, you'll over-exert and kill your performance.)
 
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tagoma
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Re: Running free

April 15th, 2018, 7:56 pm

 
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ppauper
Posts: 67553
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Running free

April 16th, 2018, 1:35 pm

boston is today, good luck to anyone taking part
Here are the 2018 Boston Marathon start times:
  • Mobility Impaired: 8:40 a.m.
  • Men’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:02 a.m.
  • Women’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:04 a.m.
  • Handcycles and Duos: 9:25 a.m.
  • Elite Women: 9:32 a.m.
  • Elite Men and Wave One: 10 a.m.
  • Wave Two: 10:25 a.m.
  • Wave Three: 10:50 a.m.
  • Wave Four: 11:15 a.m.
 
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tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18069
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

April 16th, 2018, 2:37 pm

ppauper wrote:
boston is today, good luck to anyone taking part
Here are the 2018 Boston Marathon start times:
  • Mobility Impaired: 8:40 a.m.
  • Men’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:02 a.m.
  • Women’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:04 a.m.
  • Handcycles and Duos: 9:25 a.m.
  • Elite Women: 9:32 a.m.
  • Elite Men and Wave One: 10 a.m.
  • Wave Two: 10:25 a.m.
  • Wave Three: 10:50 a.m.
  • Wave Four: 11:15 a.m.


Thanks for that. Good luck to all participants. Wet weather, it seems.
 
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tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18069
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

April 16th, 2018, 2:51 pm

tagoma wrote:
ppauper wrote:
boston is today, good luck to anyone taking part
Here are the 2018 Boston Marathon start times:
  • Mobility Impaired: 8:40 a.m.
  • Men’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:02 a.m.
  • Women’s Push-Rim Wheelchair: 9:04 a.m.
  • Handcycles and Duos: 9:25 a.m.
  • Elite Women: 9:32 a.m.
  • Elite Men and Wave One: 10 a.m.
  • Wave Two: 10:25 a.m.
  • Wave Three: 10:50 a.m.
  • Wave Four: 11:15 a.m.


Thanks for that. Good luck to all participants. Wet weather, it seems.

"Best" livestream I could find... French on a shoestring
 
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ppauper
Posts: 67553
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Running free

April 16th, 2018, 4:44 pm

slow times because of the weather
Men
1 Kawauchi, Yuki (JPN) 2:15:58
2 Kirui, Geoffrey (KEN) 2:18:23
3 Biwott, Shadrack (USA) 2:18:35

Really slow times for the women
Women
1 Linden, Desiree (USA) 2:39:54
2 Sellers, Sarah (USA)  2:44:04
3 Duchene, Krista (CAN) 2:44:20

the women's record is almost 20 minutes faster, by Buzunesh Deba of  Ethiopia in 2:19:59 in 2014
(she actually finished second in 2014 behind Rita Jeptoo (KEN) who set a course record of 2:18:57 but Jeptoo was disqualified (for failing a drug test later that year, EPO) and her record removed from the record books)
 
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tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18069
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

April 16th, 2018, 5:37 pm

ppauper wrote:
slow times because of the weather
Men
1 Kawauchi, Yuki (JPN) 2:15:58
2 Kirui, Geoffrey (KEN) 2:18:23
3 Biwott, Shadrack (USA) 2:18:35

Really slow times for the women
Women
1 Linden, Desiree (USA) 2:39:54
2 Sellers, Sarah (USA)  2:44:04
3 Duchene, Krista (CAN) 2:44:20

the women's record is almost 20 minutes faster, by Buzunesh Deba of  Ethiopia in 2:19:59 in 2014
(she actually finished second in 2014 behind Rita Jeptoo (KEN) who set a course record of 2:18:57 but Jeptoo was disqualified (for failing a drug test later that year, EPO) and her record removed from the record books)

Congrats! That is amazing
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