SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

 
User avatar
tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18233
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

May 14th, 2018, 6:40 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
ppauper wrote:
tagoma wrote:
My colleague is now halfway! Go Guillaume!

(route)

3:25:41,well done guillaume

Yes, congrats to Guillaume!

(How did he feel about the race?)

Guillaume finished the Pays d'Aix half-iron man in 5:49:59 (less than 5:50!). Race took place yesterday in/around the beautiful city of Aix-en-Provence in South France. The biking part had 1,069m ascending elevation (!)
 
User avatar
tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18233
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

May 14th, 2018, 6:43 pm

BTW, I'm working on my stride. I believe my strides are way too small.
Is there some kind of rule of thumb to calculate the most effective stride given runner (legs) size, speed, pace, distance, etc... ?  Merci!
 
User avatar
ppauper
Posts: 68760
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Running free

May 14th, 2018, 7:12 pm

tagoma wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
ppauper wrote:
3:25:41,well done guillaume

Yes, congrats to Guillaume!

(How did he feel about the race?)

Guillaume finished the Pays d'Aix half-iron man in 5:49:59 (less than 5:50!). Race took place yesterday in/around the beautiful city of Aix-en-Provence in South France. The biking part had 1,069m ascending elevation (!)

tough course. I've been through Aix-en-Provence a long time ago, but the mountains will still be there.
I was wondering where they would swim as it's a ways away from the sea, but it seems they swim in the  Lake of Peyrolles
 
User avatar
tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18233
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

May 14th, 2018, 8:34 pm

ppauper wrote:
tagoma wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
Yes, congrats to Guillaume!

(How did he feel about the race?)

Guillaume finished the Pays d'Aix half-iron man in 5:49:59 (less than 5:50!). Race took place yesterday in/around the beautiful city of Aix-en-Provence in South France. The biking part had 1,069m ascending elevation (!)

tough course. I've been through Aix-en-Provence a long time ago, but the mountains will still be there.
I was wondering where they would swim as it's a ways away from the sea, but it seems they swim in the  Lake of Peyrolles

Things are moving fast these days (Hawai, Kenya, ...) but you're right the mountains surrounding Aix are still there!
And you're also right swimming takes place at the Lac de Peyrolles
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 1:38 pm

tagoma wrote:
BTW, I'm working on my stride. I believe my strides are way too small.
Is there some kind of rule of thumb to calculate the most effective stride given runner (legs) size, speed, pace, distance, etc... ?  Merci!
Effective stride is a function of biomechanics with the legs being double-pendulums. Efficient long-distance running requiring tuning for the natural frequencies of these pendulums. (Sprinting expends a lot of energy moving the legs forward quickly to take the next stride. As running distance increases, optimal form relies more and more on natural pendulum motion.)

The general thought is that amateur runners actually tend to over-stride-- landing their feet too far in front of them which actually creates braking forces and is hard on the knees. The supposed goal is to run with a much more up-right body posture (as if one were being pulled at the belly) and have the feet land directly under you.

Current beliefs on stride are actually focused more on cadence with the supposed optimum being 180 spm.

P.S. If you have money to burn, you might look into the Garmin HRM-Tri or HRM-Run heart rate strap to get data on running dynamics. These straps give real-time data on stride length, ground contact time, vertical oscillation, left-right balance, and others. But these straps might require you to upgrade your Garmin watch. There's also foot-pod systems out there that measure aspects of your running form.
 
User avatar
outrun
Posts: 4573
Joined: April 29th, 2016, 1:40 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 2:30 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:
BTW, I'm working on my stride. I believe my strides are way too small.
Is there some kind of rule of thumb to calculate the most effective stride given runner (legs) size, speed, pace, distance, etc... ?  Merci!

Effective stride is a function of biomechanics with the legs being double-pendulums.  Efficient long-distance running requiring tuning for the natural frequencies of these pendulums.  (Sprinting expends a lot of energy moving the legs forward quickly to take the next stride.  As running distance increases, optimal form relies more and more on natural pendulum motion.)

The general thought is that amateur runners actually tend to over-stride-- landing their feet too far in front of them which actually creates braking forces and is hard on the knees.  The supposed goal is to run with a much more up-right body posture (as if one were being pulled at the belly) and have the feet land directly under you.

Current beliefs on stride are actually focused more on cadence with the supposed optimum being 180 spm.

P.S.  If you have money to burn, you might look into the Garmin HRM-Tri or HRM-Run heart rate strap to get data on running dynamics.  These straps give real-time data on stride length, ground contact time, vertical oscillation, left-right balance, and others.  But these straps might require you to upgrade your Garmin watch.  There's also foot-pod systems out there that measure aspects of your running form.

I bet you can save a lot of money with an iPhone and a pose analysis app?

Image
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 4:14 pm

outrun wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
tagoma wrote:
BTW, I'm working on my stride. I believe my strides are way too small.
Is there some kind of rule of thumb to calculate the most effective stride given runner (legs) size, speed, pace, distance, etc... ?  Merci!

Effective stride is a function of biomechanics with the legs being double-pendulums.  Efficient long-distance running requiring tuning for the natural frequencies of these pendulums.  (Sprinting expends a lot of energy moving the legs forward quickly to take the next stride.  As running distance increases, optimal form relies more and more on natural pendulum motion.)

The general thought is that amateur runners actually tend to over-stride-- landing their feet too far in front of them which actually creates braking forces and is hard on the knees.  The supposed goal is to run with a much more up-right body posture (as if one were being pulled at the belly) and have the feet land directly under you.

Current beliefs on stride are actually focused more on cadence with the supposed optimum being 180 spm.

P.S.  If you have money to burn, you might look into the Garmin HRM-Tri or HRM-Run heart rate strap to get data on running dynamics.  These straps give real-time data on stride length, ground contact time, vertical oscillation, left-right balance, and others.  But these straps might require you to upgrade your Garmin watch.  There's also foot-pod systems out there that measure aspects of your running form.

I bet you can save a lot of money with an iPhone and a pose analysis app?

Image
Nice! So have a friend coast on a bicycle next to you with a iPhone while you run to get video of your running form. Some of the better smartphones have high frame rate video. At a 120 fps, you'll get about 40 frames per step.
 
User avatar
outrun
Posts: 4573
Joined: April 29th, 2016, 1:40 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 7:37 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
outrun wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
Effective stride is a function of biomechanics with the legs being double-pendulums.  Efficient long-distance running requiring tuning for the natural frequencies of these pendulums.  (Sprinting expends a lot of energy moving the legs forward quickly to take the next stride.  As running distance increases, optimal form relies more and more on natural pendulum motion.)

The general thought is that amateur runners actually tend to over-stride-- landing their feet too far in front of them which actually creates braking forces and is hard on the knees.  The supposed goal is to run with a much more up-right body posture (as if one were being pulled at the belly) and have the feet land directly under you.

Current beliefs on stride are actually focused more on cadence with the supposed optimum being 180 spm.

P.S.  If you have money to burn, you might look into the Garmin HRM-Tri or HRM-Run heart rate strap to get data on running dynamics.  These straps give real-time data on stride length, ground contact time, vertical oscillation, left-right balance, and others.  But these straps might require you to upgrade your Garmin watch.  There's also foot-pod systems out there that measure aspects of your running form.

I bet you can save a lot of money with an iPhone and a pose analysis app?

Image

Nice!  So have a friend coast on a bicycle next to you with a iPhone while you run to get video of your running form.  Some of the better smartphones have high frame rate video.  At a 120 fps, you'll get about 40 frames per step.

Exactly! Or position yourself in the middle of a fields with a cool glass of pineapple juice in one hand and the iphone in the other, and ask your friend to run laps around you?
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 8:10 pm

outrun wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
outrun wrote:
I bet you can save a lot of money with an iPhone and a pose analysis app?

Image

Nice!  So have a friend coast on a bicycle next to you with a iPhone while you run to get video of your running form.  Some of the better smartphones have high frame rate video.  At a 120 fps, you'll get about 40 frames per step.

Exactly! Or position yourself in the middle of a fields with a cool glass of pineapple juice in one hand and the iphone in the other, and ask your friend to run laps around you?
Yes, and let's also have some coconut and almonds!

Note: the video analysis is only a kinematic analysis which is necessary but not sufficient to characterize running efficiency. The video analysis can estimate the accelerations. But you need the mass-distibution in the feet and legs to determine the various forces (gravity + muscle). Mass has an effect on speed. Each kg of foot & shoe mass costs about 25 seconds per mile.
 
User avatar
outrun
Posts: 4573
Joined: April 29th, 2016, 1:40 pm

Re: Running free

May 15th, 2018, 8:50 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
outrun wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
Nice!  So have a friend coast on a bicycle next to you with a iPhone while you run to get video of your running form.  Some of the better smartphones have high frame rate video.  At a 120 fps, you'll get about 40 frames per step.

Exactly! Or position yourself in the middle of a fields with a cool glass of pineapple juice in one hand and the iphone in the other, and ask your friend to run laps around you?

Yes, and let's also have some coconut and almonds!

Note: the video analysis is only a kinematic analysis which is necessary but not sufficient to characterize running efficiency.  The video analysis can estimate the accelerations.  But you need the mass-distibution in the feet and legs to determine the various forces (gravity + muscle).  Mass has an effect on speed.  Each kg of foot & shoe mass costs about 25 seconds per mile.

Cool! And are there optimisation algorithms that compute a personalised optimal gait using gradient ascent and reinforcement learning and which helps you achieve that better gait by allowing you to earn extra likes on our instagram?
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

May 16th, 2018, 12:07 am

outrun wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
outrun wrote:
Exactly! Or position yourself in the middle of a fields with a cool glass of pineapple juice in one hand and the iphone in the other, and ask your friend to run laps around you?

Yes, and let's also have some coconut and almonds!

Note: the video analysis is only a kinematic analysis which is necessary but not sufficient to characterize running efficiency.  The video analysis can estimate the accelerations.  But you need the mass-distibution in the feet and legs to determine the various forces (gravity + muscle).  Mass has an effect on speed.  Each kg of foot & shoe mass costs about 25 seconds per mile.

Cool! And are there optimisation algorithms that compute a personalised optimal gait using gradient ascent and reinforcement learning and which helps you achieve that better gait by allowing you to earn extra likes on our instagram?
Yes!

Image
 
User avatar
tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18233
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

May 19th, 2018, 7:50 pm

BTW, I need to increase my stride length and long-distance speed (and not only to flee from dogs).
I discovered only recently there is a 100m sprint track not so far away (unfortunately there is no better sport facility around, such as a stadium with a 400m track).
I went to practice there today, doing series of 100m along one way then returning walking 50m and trotting 50m, but I have no clue if it is efficient. 
What exercises would you recommend to meet my goals on a 100m track? (or maybe it is just a bad idea?)  Merci!
 
User avatar
Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: Running free

May 19th, 2018, 8:49 pm

Are you sure this is the right approach? The optimal stride for long distance running is extremely different from the 100 m one. The perfect stride for long-term sustained efficiency differs from the one for super-short-term bursts of power.

That said, some kind of high-intensity training can build muscle strength and cardiovascular capacity.
 
User avatar
ppauper
Posts: 68760
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Running free

May 19th, 2018, 9:12 pm

if there's a local running group and you're not already a member, find out if they do speed work. It's a lot easier to do speed work with others than by yourself.

And you don't need a running track. A path in a park is fine, or a quiet country road, and if you can find one with mile (or km) markers painted on the road from a race, even better. I'm not sure you want to be doing any intervals shorter than 400m ("quarters") and a lot of people do mile repeats for marathon training.
We used to do a workout we called 3-6-9 where we'd do 2 miles at 5:30 pace on the road, then a mile at sub-5 pace on the track, and repeat the whole process a total of 3 times, so that miles 3, 6, and 9 were on the track.
And you might try a "tempo run" (a long run at close to race pace)
And hill repeats. I prefer steeper hills
 
User avatar
tagoma
Topic Author
Posts: 18233
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Running free

May 19th, 2018, 9:22 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
Are you sure this is the right approach?  The optimal stride for long distance running is extremely different from the 100 m one.   The perfect stride for long-term sustained efficiency differs from the one for super-short-term bursts of power.

That said, some kind of high-intensity training can build muscle strength and cardiovascular capacity.

Thank you T4A. I don't know if it is the right approach. I have spent many years training on long distance (for the every man I am), forgetting about speed. I am trying to un-learn all this, working on my body position, gesture on much shorter distance. On the track I make my best to send my knees forward and upwards and run tiptoes. I thought that would help me gaining thigh strength and improve my posture. But, yeah maybe I'm just wrong. Anyway, it is probably good for cardiovascular capacity, as you also suggest. 
What else would you suggest, please?
ABOUT WILMOTT

PW by JB

Wilmott.com has been "Serving the Quantitative Finance Community" since 2001. Continued...


JOBS BOARD

JOBS BOARD

Looking for a quant job, risk, algo trading,...? Browse jobs here...