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ppauper
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December 8th, 2007, 1:43 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperdon't worry, you'll have enough $$$ to get women elsewherePathetic...I agree, but what choice will he have with those long hours ?
 
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ppauper
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December 8th, 2007, 1:44 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa99,9999% people would hate to work with 15 hour days, so if there is an "agreement" which says that, it only means that the employer had the economic power to push this on the employee. Labour law is what is supposed to prevent that, and for a reason.and yet 15 hour days persist
 
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amerikan
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December 8th, 2007, 1:52 pm

Hehe, I don't know if I'm interested in buying womens, but thanks for the advice How much to researchers in quantitative finance work?
 
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ZmeiGorynych
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December 8th, 2007, 3:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: amerikanHehe, I don't know if I'm interested in buying womens, but thanks for the advice Just ignore ppauper. He's one of 3 or 4 people on here that only ever post crap - I really wish Paul W would ban them.N was another one, but thankfully he's been quiet lately.
 
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katastrofa
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December 8th, 2007, 4:27 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: penguinoQuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa... in some Third World sweatshop. With them, it's not an "agreement" but exploitation.That is a load of bollocks. Surely there are some people who are exploited, but for the vast majority of labourers in so-called "sweatshops", they know it is hard work and they stay on because of the money and relative job security compared with farming, or being low-skilled and unemployed. In other words, they stay because other choices are even worse. And their employers exploit the situation. They pay them 0.01$ for manufacturing a pair of $50 shoes - how do you call that if not exploitation?
 
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katastrofa
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December 8th, 2007, 4:28 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa99,9999% people would hate to work with 15 hour days, so if there is an "agreement" which says that, it only means that the employer had the economic power to push this on the employee. Labour law is what is supposed to prevent that, and for a reason.and yet 15 hour days persistIn the civilized world, they persist with quants and other professionals, who are amply compensated for that.
 
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gjlipman
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December 8th, 2007, 5:02 pm

It is probably fair to say that 99.9999% of people would hate to work 15 hour days for the rest of their life. But in investment banking, there are often times when I know that working some long hours now will pay off in terms of reduced hours and more valuable work later, so I'm more than happy to put them in.I'd also say that once you get a few years into your career, and the bank realises that you're not cheaply replaced, they tend to be a bit better at letting you work the way that you want.
 
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amerikan
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December 8th, 2007, 8:02 pm

That's an interesting discussion guys, but before you go on with it, can you please answer my question: how many hours/day do researchers work? Do they have to work 30-hoursdays or do they work like 7-7 every day (do they know when they will get home or will it be different from day to day for them to)?
 
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Zub
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December 8th, 2007, 11:03 pm

Excuse me guys,but I find this discussion a bit silly. Are we talking about quants in IB/HF? Are we really judging their work on a /per hour basis, as we were house cleaners (I have nothing against them, just to make the first /per hour job that came to my mind). I think that people are judged by the numer of tasks they can do, and the quality of the work they can deliver. This has little to do in my opinion with the number of hours one works. Sometimes I look at a bunch of equations for a whole day and manage to write a few lines of code, which the next day I delete. Sometimes I have nice ideas on the weekend and I manage to implement them in a small amount of time. I don't really think that we should support this (very american, in my opinion) way of thinking. At the end of the day, in the jungle, if an animal is not smart, it has to run faster, or to be able to keep running for longer.
 
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penguino
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December 9th, 2007, 9:02 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: penguinoQuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofa... in some Third World sweatshop. With them, it's not an "agreement" but exploitation.That is a load of bollocks. Surely there are some people who are exploited, but for the vast majority of labourers in so-called "sweatshops", they know it is hard work and they stay on because of the money and relative job security compared with farming, or being low-skilled and unemployed. In other words, they stay because other choices are even worse. And their employers exploit the situation. They pay them 0.01$ for manufacturing a pair of $50 shoes - how do you call that if not exploitation?There are many things wrong with this line of thinking. Firstly, workers can choose whether they want to work there or not. They do have freedom of choice. This reduces the accusation of exploitation.Secondly, what something costs and what you charge for it are two different things. Just because manufacturing a bottle of cologne costs $1 and it sells for $100 does not make it exploitative. Who is being exploited?More importantly, your position on sweatshops is clouded by negativity. You ignore the realised beneficial aspects of the relationship such as raising living standards.When companies set up shop in a developing country, that investment invigorates local economies and businesses in the area. The training of employees results in a pool of skilled workers, which then attracts more foreign investment and thereby more opportunities for workers.
 
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gjlipman
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December 9th, 2007, 10:07 am

amerikan: There is no easy answer, as banks and roles and individuals within them vary hugely - certainly 16 hour days isn't that unusual, but nor is 9 hours. Depending on your role, and which markets you face, you may be expected to work later in the evening or get in earlier in the morning, and you may have to work particulalry hard at certain times of the month. If you're really good, you can be more flexible on your hours, though you have to accept that there will be ambitious people working alongside you, who are prepared to put in longer hours for some current or future benefit, and the bank certainly won't stop them. Regarding holidays, since joining a bank, I haven't been telephoned while on holiday (though I sometimes wish I had, rather than have a piece of work stall while I was awake), though working for a consultancy previously, I often got called on holiday.Zub:I take your point, but I don't think anyone was suggesting that the value of an individual to a bank was a direct function of their hours. But as an individual, the major cost of what an employee gives to the bank is their hours, so it is perfectly reasonable to give it a lot of thought.
 
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katastrofa
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December 9th, 2007, 10:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: penguinoThere are many things wrong with this line of thinking. Firstly, workers can choose whether they want to work there or not. They do have freedom of choice.Sure - they can choose to starve. Free people. "If they don't have bread, why don't they eat cookies?"QuoteMore importantly, your position on sweatshops is clouded by negativity. You ignore the realised beneficial aspects of the relationship such as raising living standards.Do they? In some chinese cities, the factories pollute the environment immensely - does it raise living standards?QuoteThe training of employees results in a pool of skilled workers, which then attracts more foreign investment and thereby more opportunities for workers.*If* they are any sort of skilled labour.
 
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amerikan
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December 9th, 2007, 1:56 pm

gjlipman, thank you for your answerDo you know how much researchers usually work?
 
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ZmeiGorynych
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December 9th, 2007, 2:17 pm

Could the guys discussing sweatshops please take that discussion to the offtopic forum?
 
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twofish
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December 9th, 2007, 4:05 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: amerikanthanks zmei, that made me feel a little bit better I also doesn't really get the point with being there if there is practically nothing to do. How much do you earn and how many years of experience do you have?Talking about what a particular person makes tends to be a taboo, but the way to phrase the question to get the information you are looking for is "What is the market salary for someone with X experience?"
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