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farmer
Posts: 13461
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 14th, 2008, 8:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MaeloSo farmer...creativity is out???In 1999 and 2000, all the smartest graduates went to Silicon Valley instead of Wall Street. Everyone from Berkeley and Stanford, everyone from MIT, a lot of people from the other top colleges. Once you have chosen that direction, you can't switch back to Wall Street without some dumb person who was there all along being your boss. The hedge fund boom steered some graduates back in the other direction in following years. But never as many as in the years before Google and Yahoo and the latest smaller company purchased for $150 million. For the most part, the stories we hear of Wall Street lately are stories of dumb people.When I hear about these Lehman negotiations, I doubt there is a smart person in the room. I trace their bankruptcy to a firmwide dumbness from top to bottom. And the only explanation I can think of for that is smart people going into the web businesses, high tech stuff, venture capital, and so on. Between energy being an overseas business, and the US specializing in technology, Wall Street was left nothing more than a boiler room for mortgages.At least the people at Goldman Sachs seem to be smart enough to understand that all they ever were is a boiler room. They just keep blowing out investors, from Ariba in 2000 to whatever it is these days, and never blink.
Last edited by farmer on September 13th, 2008, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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KackToodles
Posts: 4100
Joined: August 28th, 2005, 10:46 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 14th, 2008, 8:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerFor the most part, the stories we hear of Wall Street lately are stories of dumb people. true. the first wave into a new industry are the smart people. the second and third waves become dumber and dumber. True in silicon valley, true on wall street, where the people coming in are now the lagging Nth wave. The red flag is professional "masters" degrees. Once they start issuing "masters" degree to help laggards land a job in that field, that field is already sliding into the downhill slope. The trick is to predict where the first wave is and dive in head first.
Last edited by KackToodles on September 13th, 2008, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 14th, 2008, 9:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: farmerFor the most part, the stories we hear of Wall Street lately are stories of dumb people. true. the first wave into a new industry are the smart people. the second and third waves become dumber and dumber. True in silicon valley, true on wall street, where the people coming in are now the lagging Nth wave. The red flag is professional "masters" degrees. Once they start issuing "masters" degree to help laggards land a job in that field, that field is already sliding into the downhill slope. The trick is to predict where the first wave is and dive in head first. Nail on the head as usual to kacks and farmer. I wonder if the MFE will survive the crunch. Maybe the business schools will just go back to teaching MBA's and the banks to hiring good old-fashioned particle physicists? This bubble has well and truly burst !! .
 
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weiser
Posts: 6
Joined: April 8th, 2008, 3:18 am

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 12:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: MaeloQuoteOriginally posted by: weiserIf hiring C students was more profitable, someone would already be doing it.ECSH??? (Efficient C-Student Hypohotesis???)Let me qualify my original assertion: Given a free market in financial industry, if hiring C students was more profitable, someone would already be doing it.However, I would reckon that the financial sector is far from a free market. Its been propped up by the governments, and operate much like a cartel. They dont feel the need to be innovative and think outside the box. Its not like someone else will come in and take over there market share. So I dont think anybody in this industry ever experimented with hiring from a pool of people other than Ivy League - A student type or something equivalent (Phd from prestigious university...blah blah). Why try something inconvenient when there is no need to. The alternative in hiring does not mean that all the new hires have to be C students. Just someone who is not exactly like the hiring manager and hopefully can bring some diversity of perspective.
Last edited by weiser on September 14th, 2008, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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twofish
Posts: 4944
Joined: February 18th, 2005, 6:51 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 2:18 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: weiserIf hiring C students was more profitable, someone would already be doing it.People are.
 
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twofish
Posts: 4944
Joined: February 18th, 2005, 6:51 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 2:32 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: weiserSo I dont think anybody in this industry ever experimented with hiring from a pool of people other than Ivy League - A student type or something equivalent (Phd from prestigious university...blah blah).When I look over resumes I don't care what university you went to and usually don't even ask about GPA's, since grades are often bogus. A C in most state universities requires more effort than an A at most Ivy League universities, since most Ivies have totally inflated grading systems.QuoteWhy try something inconvenient when there is no need to.Because it will save your rear end when things totally fall apart. Business is Darwinian not Lamarckian. It's not that a business that is doing stupid things will magically stop. It's that a business that is doing stupid things will either stop doing stupid things or eventually the grim reaper will come and force the business into bankruptcy.
 
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alexcheng
Posts: 12
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 8:03 am

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 7:38 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: farmerFor the most part, the stories we hear of Wall Street lately are stories of dumb people. true. the first wave into a new industry are the smart people. the second and third waves become dumber and dumber. True in silicon valley, true on wall street, where the people coming in are now the lagging Nth wave. The red flag is professional "masters" degrees. Once they start issuing "masters" degree to help laggards land a job in that field, that field is already sliding into the downhill slope. The trick is to predict where the first wave is and dive in head first. not true (not in silicon valley anyway). there are still plenty of brilliant ideas floating around the valley -- and i'm not just talking about social networking -- i'm talking about web 2.0 technology that improves your life. just look at the stuff going on in the opensource arena, and are you trying to tell me that apple can't innovate (or at least market that innovation in unprecedented ways, all of which requires some pretty hardcore out of the box thinking. and i don't buy that "it's all steve" bs)? perhaps what you're referring to is such a high degree of saturation that it's getting increasingly difficult to separate the cream from the crop. just reading techcrunch.com, you'll see many fine startups, but which ones will end up in the deadpool, who knows?
 
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KackToodles
Posts: 4100
Joined: August 28th, 2005, 10:46 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 8:06 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: alexcheng i'm talking about web 2.0 technology that improves your life. just look at the stuff going on in the opensource arena, Sawwwry, anything that says "2.0" is not revolutionary, is it? If you are one of those Nth generatiion guys with a new Masters Degree, you don't know the true meaning of the word revolution, living in trailers, dropping out of stanford, funding your startup on your credit card, and being turned away by IBM and MSFT! Comparing 2.0 to that is like comparing apple sauce to a big red apple.
Last edited by KackToodles on September 14th, 2008, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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farmer
Posts: 13461
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 8:29 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: alexchengweb 2.0 technologyLol. How about "web they.give.us.their.credit.card technology." That's the good stuff.
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 8:34 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: alexchengweb 2.0 technologyLol. How about "web they.give.us.their.credit.card technology." That's the good stuff.Doh!
 
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GeneralDude
Posts: 86
Joined: August 26th, 2006, 11:44 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 11:21 pm

I think the OP has hit the nail on the head.It is about time the world learned the the correlation between having good grades & being smart/knowing your shit = 0
Last edited by GeneralDude on September 15th, 2008, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 15th, 2008, 11:28 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: GeneralDudeI think the OP has hit the nail on the head.It is about time the world learned the the correlation between having good grades & being smart/knowing your shit = 0So all those PhD's should have stayed in academia after all ?
 
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KackToodles
Posts: 4100
Joined: August 28th, 2005, 10:46 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 16th, 2008, 5:20 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeSo all those PhD's should have stayed in academia after all ? at least academics have somewhere to go after their firms go bankrupt.
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

September 16th, 2008, 7:14 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeSo all those PhD's should have stayed in academia after all ? at least academics have somewhere to go after their firms go bankrupt. Do they though kacks ? Once again it's supply and demand, and last time I heard, physics departments had managed to fill their quotas for the year.
 
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farmer
Posts: 13461
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Wall Street needs to hire some 'C' students

April 16th, 2010, 9:45 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerAt least the people at Goldman Sachs seem to be smart enough to understand that all they ever were is a boiler room. They just keep blowing out investors, from Ariba in 2000 to whatever it is these days, and never blink.Like this...QuoteGoldman let Mr. Paulson select mortgage bonds that he wanted to bet against — the ones he believed were most likely to lose value — and packaged those bonds into Abacus 2007-AC1, according to the S.E.C. complaint. Goldman then sold the Abacus deal to investors like foreign banks, pension funds, insurance companies and other hedge funds.But the deck was stacked against the Abacus investors, the complaint contends, because the investment was filled with bonds chosen by Mr. Paulson, who is not named in the suit, as likely to default. Goldman told investors in Abacus marketing materials reviewed by The Times that the bonds would be chosen by an independent manager.I should probably also add Mexican Bonds, Global Alpha and what not...
Last edited by farmer on April 15th, 2010, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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