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Steilermeier
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Joined: March 18th, 2008, 2:34 pm

Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 20th, 2010, 11:18 am

Hello,how many months in advance should one start the application process for full time positions? Does it depend on the company? Does it depend on the country? On what else does it depend? When do you start to approach headhunters? I guess loading ones CV up in some career portals can be started with immediately.I will be finished with my PhD in Statistics at the end of 2011 latest.CheersSteilermeier
 
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twofish
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 20th, 2010, 12:01 pm

Start sending out your resume now, so that you can get connected with headhunters. The more headhunters you know, the better.Usually, when people interview for jobs, they are because there is an immediate opening.
 
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KackToodles
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 21st, 2010, 4:39 am

be careful, you will wind up talking to the worst HHs of the bunch, they are like ambulance chasers.
 
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Steilermeier
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 22nd, 2010, 12:45 pm

Hi,I already have contact with 2 headhunters. One is very promising, the other one wants to push me in some direction which I don't like. But that's how they are, placing you as fast as possible, even though the position might not fit you very well. But I read, that being in contact with too many headhunters might backfire when companies get offered your resume from various sources one might appear to be needy, which is true, but you don't want to appear like that. It's all about the bluff. Like most times in life...What about companies? Is it sensible to phone and interrogate HR when the perfect timing for application is, how many position they are planning to fill, what teams they got? In the big ones you know the departments but in the small ones you don't really know about the structure. And I found out HR (of top 10 I-Bank) doesn't know either. And I don't want to be placed in some pseudo quant team doing standard Markowitz with Excel. I would be bored to death.So timeline would be: Get your CV together now, put it online in some career portals now, send it out to headhunters now, scan web 3 months before PhD completion for actual job offerings?!?Much appreciate your help!CheersSteilermeier
 
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twofish
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 23rd, 2010, 12:14 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesbe careful, you will wind up talking to the worst HHs of the bunch, they are like ambulance chasers. If you contact a lot of HH's, you *will* be talking to some truly dreadful HH's, but dealing with dreadful HH's is part of your education.
 
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twofish
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 23rd, 2010, 12:33 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: SteilermeierBut I read, that being in contact with too many headhunters might backfire when companies get offered your resume from various sources one might appear to be needy, which is true, but you don't want to appear like that. It's all about the bluff. Like most times in life...Nonsense.The rule is that the first HH that offers an interview gets the position.Also, your resume is going to be seen by about five or six people each with a fraction of the picture, so no one is going to care if you look needy. The other thing is that if you are a newbie, then it's terribly unlikely that you'll be able to "bluff" anyone with anything. Just by looking at your resume, I can get a reasonable idea of how in demand your skills are, since I know the market better than you.As a newbie, you aren't going to be in a position to "bluff" anyone. The big goal is not to be bluffed. The fact that I can take a look at two or three dozen incoming resumes and you can't, gives me a huge information asymmetry over you, since I can see all of the other cards on the table and I can guess what you are holding. If you tell me that you are in hot demand, and I tell you that this is not true (whether or not it is true) , then you are likely to fold or at least twitch since you don't know whether the cards you are holding are any good or not.One reason to deal with multiple HH's, is that every HH is ultimately concerned with their commission, and once they land you a job, they will put you under *EXTREME* psychological pressure to take their job. The HH will make you feel that your life is over if you don't take their position. If you deal with one HH, it's hard to figure out what is going on, but if you have multiple HH's, each will tell you how awful the other HH's are, and this gives you a better idea of what is going on.QuoteWhat about companies? Is it sensible to phone and interrogate HR when the perfect timing for application is, how many position they are planning to fill, what teams they got?1) Good luck getting the phone number of anyone? If you call the main switchboard, they aren't going to forward your call.2) Even on the rare chance that you make it through, the HR person is not going to know anything. Other than shuffling papers and doing background checks, HR is not involved in processing Ph.D. applications.3) Even if they know something, they aren't going to tell you.One rule is to talk to people and not to companies. The most valuable commodity in this business is information.You'll have a lot better luck PM'ing people in forums that seem to have information that they are willing to share, but they that don't want to make public.QuoteAnd I don't want to be placed in some pseudo quant team doing standard Markowitz with Excel. I would be bored to death.You may have a problem if the jobs that you want to do aren't the jobs that are available. One reason for trying to apply to a large number of jobs is that you get a sense of what jobs are available. Something that will kill your chances at getting a job, is if the interviewer thinks that you will be bored to death at the job. If it turns out that there are other jobs available, it's a good thing to be turned down. If not, then not.One reason that I like this game is that even with the most boring jobs, there is a lot of excitement in the process of getting that job. If it turns out that you get a job shovelling horse manure, and then process of figuring how to get a promotion to shoveling elephant dung involves trying to figure out who has elephant dung jobs available, calculating the amount of elephants out there, making friends with elephant dung masters, etc. etc. So even "boring" jobs turn out to be quite exciting to me.One cool thing about finance, is that I've never been bored. I've been stressed, angry, frustrated, happy, sad, excited, and scared, but I've never been bored.
Last edited by twofish on October 22nd, 2010, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mrmister
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Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 23rd, 2010, 1:48 am

Quote The most valuable commodity in this business is information. Alright, Mr. Gekko.
 
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KackToodles
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Joined: August 28th, 2005, 10:46 pm

Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 23rd, 2010, 3:30 pm

Quote The most valuable commodity in this business is information. the most valuable commodity in doing business is your zipper.Always keep it zipped.
 
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Steilermeier
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Joined: March 18th, 2008, 2:34 pm

Timing of Full Time Job Applications

October 26th, 2010, 2:09 pm

Hi guys,@ twofish: Thank you for the extensive answer. Alright then, I will start sending out my resume to HHs and will PM some people on LinkedIn. Has to be there some sort of connection in advance or is a cold approach promising as well? @ mrmister & KackToodles: Cheers!Steilermeier
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