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jupiter7
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 10:44 am

Obviously there are many aggressive ppl in banking, but the past 6 months i've come across someone who will snap at you with no apparent reason, everything you do and say is stupid to him and he will have no problem sharing his view, that you are an idiot, over the phone.. I have to work with this guy more and more now (he's not in my team though) and his whole attitude is getting on my nerves. How are you guys dealing with this kind of situations? (he's at director level, i'm at associate level)..thanks
 
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farmer
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Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 11:09 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: jupiter7he will have no problem sharing his view, that you are an idiot, over the phone.This type of person is much better than someone who is polite to your face, but goes to great lengths behind your back to prove to other people that you are an idiot.QuoteOriginally posted by: jupiter7his whole attitude is getting on my nerves. How are you guys dealing with this kind of situations?You did not mention any cost to you apart from your nerves. Perhaps he is an expert manager, who knows how to create costs for you and shape your behavior without actually costing you anything. If his style is misplaced with your behavior - if you do not in fact try to work harder or better to avoid being bitched at - he probably will not learn this and adjust his style over time. But he might, and spinning his wheels in the meantime does not cost anyone anything, it is like a tree falling in the woods that nobody hears.But I don't think that is the case, I think you respond well to this type of motivation.
 
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farmer
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 11:20 am

Some talented coding geeks are vain, arrogant, distractable, daydreaming little laze-abouts with difficulty focusing. Some managers recognize that there are natural remedies for attention deficit disorder which work as well as ritalin. These include shocking the brain to alertness by provoking panic, distress, or confrontation. An ADD-addled slob might maintain productive focus for up to 45 minutes after engaging in a confrontation.
 
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Mulberry
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 2:02 am

Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 11:27 am

It sounds better than having an idiot director around, unless he is an idiot than my argument can be thrown out of the window. At least here, he sounds Type A. If this is the case, do what he says and don't piss him off by doing the opposite. If he is Type A and good at his job, learn from him and have his back ... he will more than likely support you later. People get aggressive or pent up when they have to deal with foolishness on a near continuous basis. If everything was cool, he might be cool too but this is not the case. Especially since you are working at a bank, there are lots of discontents walking around so choose your battles. I reiterate, if he is a level over you ... make a instance of understanding his point of view and have his back, your situation will most likely clear up if you show your support.Be extremely thankful that he is not a bumbling idiot, there is nothing worse in the bank than have to assimilate with people like this. I hope he isn't a bumbling idiot...if that is the case, I'd look for different work.
 
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DominicConnor
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 11:31 am

Recently a member of this forum expressed a similar problem to me personally, and part of my suggestions were that with a relatively short space of time, the jerk in question would self destruct. By this I meant that he would be stupidly aggressive to a senior person with teeth. As I recall a week later he rang back to say the jerk had done just that.There is at least as much luck as judgement in that anecdote, but the underlying truth is that being an aggresive jerk is not a very directional activitiy.I actually handle some of this in a CQF soft skills lecture...A key term here is to keep the moral high ground, in other words do not get drawn into a fight where your enemy chooses the ground.One trick that works quite well is to help the jerk. Ask his boss and/or your boss "is Joe Jerk OK, he seems to be under a lot of stress ?"Show concern for this fellow member of the group, if he gets extreme, say you are worried about him.If he shouts, refer to this as excitement. One thing that can cause jerks to self destruct is what I term 'oblique agreement'. Such people spout long streams of shit.In meetings take some small part of it, choose to radically misinterpret it and say "Joe Jerk is right about X", when he has tried to say NOT X in his rant.With luck he may start attacking his own statements, and certainly it will help him heat up nicely.The problem with this jerk is not that he is aggressive, but that he is not aggressive enough./ As long as you are not seen to be causing problems by confrontaitons, you want him to be the agent of his own destruction.Note the multi layered nature of the attack, and be clear here it is an attack, just a sophisticated one.You are sending the messages:I am a good team player.I am so strong that when people attack me, I fear not more my own safety, but them hurting themselves.and of course ...this guy is a jerk, he's pissing people off because his brain is fucked.
 
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farmer
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 11:40 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorchoose to radically misinterpret it and say "Joe Jerk is right about X", when he has tried to say NOT X in his rant.This is dishonest. You have gone to great lengths in other posts to discourage people from being dishonest, even if they think they can get away with it.In my own experience, which I would guess is limited compared to yours, your approach will only work in a workplace populated with dumb people. In places I have worked, there has been a smart senior person who would recognize your strategy instantly, and quietly label you as a fake, manipulative, self-important angle-shooter. Everything you said would be taken with a grain of salt from that day forward.What I am saying seems to agree somewhat with your past statements, so far as the cost of lying, which past statements seem to me to contradict your current recommendation.In the past I have argued that people don't mind a liar. But this is if they assume the liar is on their side, and loyal. A manager might prefer a lying salesman, as long as he doesn't lie to the manager (or is childishly harmless or transparent when he does). If you include a senior person in the audience for your lies, and thereby attempt to subvert his decision making, you could have problems.QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorA key term here is to keep the moral high groundThere is a general problem with this. People who are slick and immoral, will often put on an act of keeping the moral high ground better than people who are in fact moral, but not very glib. In fact, using your own morals against you - appealing to your morals, and taking advantage of your predictability in this area - is the most powerful weapon of sociopaths. For this reason, a good counter strategy is often to distrust anyone who claims the moral high ground - or uses any kind of theatrics - as being practiced in tactics and therefore unsafe.So you will often run into people who are leery of any type of moral act, whether by a priest or whomever. They will more trust a flawed and fallen person. So of course adding some element of fallibility, by overtly sinning, is a better way to gain some people's trust.
Last edited by farmer on November 29th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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cryptic26
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 2:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: jupiter7Obviously there are many aggressive ppl in banking, but the past 6 months i've come across someone who will snap at you with no apparent reason, everything you do and say is stupid to him and he will have no problem sharing his view, that you are an idiot, over the phone.. I have to work with this guy more and more now (he's not in my team though) and his whole attitude is getting on my nerves. How are you guys dealing with this kind of situations? (he's at director level, i'm at associate level)..thanksAlthough I agree with Dominic's strategy, it would actually take some other kind of personality to act the same. A Director level is not that senior - it appears to be but it is not. What could help is to find another colleague who is also facing the rough wind - the chances are that you might find it in your group or some other group. Ask around as to how to deal with him rather politely. See if this director is only aggressive with you or also the rest. Then start writing the conversation with him (if possible word by word). If possible, write minutes of the meeting including the last few ones. Put that in the email. Then, try and talk to your boss. This kind of behavior is not acceptable no matter who it is. There are places where the HR could help you out but the chances are that your situation is not that bad but it could worsen pretty soon. Usually bully people tend to get worse with time when you don't stand up or retaliate against them on their face. Whatever you do has to be behind his back.
Last edited by cryptic26 on November 29th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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farmer
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 2:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: cryptic26Then, try and talk to your boss. This kind of behavior is not acceptable no matter who it is. There are places where the HR could help you out but the chances are that your situation is not that bad but it could worsen pretty soon. Usually bully people tend to get worse with time when you don't stand up or retaliate against them on their face. Whatever you do has to be behind his back.You are not the customer. Unless you are working for below market rates, it is not somebody's job to be sweet or mean to you. Generally people are expected to do a job, and any kind of aggressive behavior is at worst incidental, not material. If I ran a business, I would look for people who do their job in rain or shine, and don't play games. There are some people you can shout at all day and they won't be distracted from their work. Unless he makes you believe that your paycheck is in danger, don't waste your time. The first person I would let go is someone high maintenance.
 
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farmer
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 4:34 pm

Hang in there baby!
 
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DominicConnor
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 6:03 pm

Going over the head of this jerk is difficult, parly because of the precision required. You need a level that is high enough to bridge both teams, but low enough to care. Also managers do not like going into the territory 'owned' by another.i would spwnd some time finding others affected by the jerk.
 
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farmer
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 6:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorGoing over the head of this jerk is difficult, parly because of the precision required.I think it is doomed. Maybe you could make your supervisor approach you and ASK YOU for something. Just don't take the guy's calls, or refrain from communicating with him. Then when whoever rules you says please talk to this man, you can say no, not unless he stops A, B, and C, I won't work like that. Then they will be faced with a choice of firing you or asking the other guy to change his behavior. But you never asked anything of anyone, and you certainly never went behind someone's back and tried to sabotage him.And it puts the other guy in the embarrassing position of wanting something and having to ask someone for it, and looking weak and high maintenance. And it establishes the moment it happens that you are needed, and have a negotiating position. They want something from you which you are withholding.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

November 30th, 2010, 6:37 pm

Invite him out for a drink; it might be a very nice person. QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerHang in there baby!That's very good. He reminds me (in Dutch) "Kleine honden blaffen het hardst".
Last edited by Cuchulainn on November 29th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stutch
Posts: 113
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 10:16 am

Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

December 1st, 2010, 9:45 am

When I was 19 I was set loose as cop on the streets of a relatively poor area in the northeast of england. I have been shot at, people have tried to run me down, stab me and hit me with a variety of objects ranging from ashtrays to motorcycle seats. At the same time we were the first people they'd call when they were in trouble. Sometimes people would wind you up, you can't retaliate, I found that being polite, sometimes excessively polite worked and they'd bite and you deal with it.So recently I had a team of about 20 people working for me, I had two bosses, one polite who owned the budget and the other Mr. Angry who was responsible for a shared service. I used to have regular WTF meetings with Mr Angry and the door would slam behind me and the guys would wonder why I was not phased by him. I knew he was not going to try and kill me at some point, I'd been there and having some one like this in your face is no problem if you remain calm and polite, being polite often wound him up even more. After a bout of table banging , I'd ask him to go over some points to clarify what he wanted. In team meetings he'd look kind of stupid as everyone else sat in silence. This came to a head one day when in a WTF meeting he asked me 'If you think I am a c*** then say so' , so I did. The he asked why, so I told him in no uncertain terms why in an aggressive manner he had not seen before. He took it on board, and to his credit he agreed with me.We continued as before, with the occasional WTF meeting, he'd have a rant and we'd go back to work, but it bothered me even less. My team were protected and the job got done, the business was very profitable and our clients loved us.The points are, don't get frustrated by things you can't change, be professional and polite, time will be on your side, get things in perspective. One of my team was my boss in a previous role !
 
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endian675
Posts: 143
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 7:09 pm

Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

December 1st, 2010, 11:37 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: StutchWhen I was 19 I was set loose as cop on the streets of a relatively poor area in the northeast of england. I have been shot at, people have tried to run me down, stab me and hit me with a variety of objects ranging from ashtrays to motorcycle seats. At the same time we were the first people they'd call when they were in trouble. Sometimes people would wind you up, you can't retaliate, I found that being polite, sometimes excessively polite worked and they'd bite and you deal with it.So recently I had a team of about 20 people working for me, I had two bosses, one polite who owned the budget and the other Mr. Angry who was responsible for a shared service. I used to have regular WTF meetings with Mr Angry and the door would slam behind me and the guys would wonder why I was not phased by him. I knew he was not going to try and kill me at some point, I'd been there and having some one like this in your face is no problem if you remain calm and polite, being polite often wound him up even more. After a bout of table banging , I'd ask him to go over some points to clarify what he wanted. In team meetings he'd look kind of stupid as everyone else sat in silence. This came to a head one day when in a WTF meeting he asked me 'If you think I am a c*** then say so' , so I did. The he asked why, so I told him in no uncertain terms why in an aggressive manner he had not seen before. He took it on board, and to his credit he agreed with me.We continued as before, with the occasional WTF meeting, he'd have a rant and we'd go back to work, but it bothered me even less. My team were protected and the job got done, the business was very profitable and our clients loved us.The points are, don't get frustrated by things you can't change, be professional and polite, time will be on your side, get things in perspective. One of my team was my boss in a previous role !Good story/advice. Facetious comment: so your recommendation is to go out in Newcastle on a Saturday night, get stabbed, shot at and abused, and then on Monday everything will seem much less important.
 
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Stutch
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Dealing with stupidly aggressive people

December 1st, 2010, 12:57 pm

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