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traderjoe1976
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June 1st, 2011, 3:44 pm

Attitudes have definitely changed. There was a time when 90% of Chinese MBAs and PhDs from USA B-schools would take jobs in USA. Now, 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China. It is only a few years away when the Asian schools will become as productive in research as the top USA schools because they are packed with people who obtained their PhDs from top USA B-schools.But Finance PhD programs still has about 50% Caucasian PhD students. These MFE programs typically have less than 10% Caucasian MFE students. I guess in PhD selection, they put more emphasis on English because they expect these people to teach MBA students who are paying astronomical amounts of money. The MFEs will be in their cubicles doing programming, so I guess English is not that important.
 
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juliocabviana
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June 1st, 2011, 3:51 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: juliocabvianathe race doesn't explain maths orientation. In the shouth america doesn't have much courses on maths orientation. However, continental europe, US and oriental world there are a orientation about maths education system. Here, in Brazil, the math system and all of engeneering undergraduates are elevated now and the results will appear some years foward.What's "maths orientation"?I'm sorry.it's mean courses with quantitave methods or heavy load maths.
 
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Caesaria
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June 1st, 2011, 3:56 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Attitudes have definitely changed. There was a time when 90% of Chinese MBAs and PhDs from USA B-schools would take jobs in USA. Now, 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China. It is only a few years away when the Asian schools will become as productive in research as the top USA schools because they are packed with people who obtained their PhDs from top USA B-schools.But Finance PhD programs still has about 50% Caucasian PhD students. These MFE programs typically have less than 10% Caucasian MFE students. I guess in PhD selection, they put more emphasis on English because they expect these people to teach MBA students who are paying astronomical amounts of money. The MFEs will be in their cubicles doing programming, so I guess English is not that important.I think the reality is the nature of some of these MFE programs, if the programs are heaving programming oriented like CMU MSCF then you'll see the program is filled with coders (indians/chinese). If you see Princeton's MSF program then you need good programming skills but don't need to focus on becoming a C++ guru, so you'll see more "balanced" individuals in that program hence a better diversity. MBA programs too are balanced since you need all rounder skills. It just shows that MSCF being a "Computational finance" program has more of those "computational" types.In short if the program gears you towards a front office trading role or client facing role, it would be more balanced in terms of ethnicities. I don't consider algo trader's to be "front office" types, they are coder traders which essentially means at heart they are coders i.e. (MSCF types).
Last edited by Caesaria on May 31st, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Cuchulainn
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June 1st, 2011, 4:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: juliocabvianaQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: juliocabvianathe race doesn't explain maths orientation. In the shouth america doesn't have much courses on maths orientation. However, continental europe, US and oriental world there are a orientation about maths education system. Here, in Brazil, the math system and all of engeneering undergraduates are elevated now and the results will appear some years foward.What's "maths orientation"?I'm sorry.it's mean courses with quantitave methods or heavy load maths.Thanks.
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quantmeh
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June 1st, 2011, 7:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Caesariaapart from a couple of latin americans, there aren't really any in the program. Its filled with either asian or some east indian candidates. http://tepper.cmu.edu/mscfStandAloneGallery.htmli just looked at the web site. it's quite startling. it makes you think twice whether you want to go to CMU MSCF. the field is dead. you can't compete with asians.
 
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AndyNguyen
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June 1st, 2011, 8:01 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Attitudes have definitely changed. There was a time when 90% of Chinese MBAs and PhDs from USA B-schools would take jobs in USA. Now, 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China.Interesting statistics.Can you please provide the source of this 90% number?Tks
 
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quantmeh
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June 1st, 2011, 8:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AndyNguyenQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Attitudes have definitely changed. There was a time when 90% of Chinese MBAs and PhDs from USA B-schools would take jobs in USA. Now, 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China.Interesting statistics.Can you please provide the source of this 90% number?i'm sure he has the standard deviations too
 
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traderjoe1976
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June 1st, 2011, 8:53 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AndyNguyenQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Attitudes have definitely changed. There was a time when 90% of Chinese MBAs and PhDs from USA B-schools would take jobs in USA. Now, 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China.Interesting statistics.Can you please provide the source of this 90% number?Tksyou have to go to the career web sites of the MBA programs at Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, etc. They provide detailed information for several years, which countries the students are coming from and which countries they are taking employment and the salaries which the MBA students are getting in the different countries along with the number of MBA students taking jobs in each country. For PhD students, it is just my personal knowledge having interacted with them for many years. The PhD programs also provide information which universities the students are joining each year. i have got the links in one of my files.
 
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demha
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June 1st, 2011, 8:58 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehi just looked at the web site. it's quite startling. it makes you think twice whether you want to go to CMU MSCF. the field is dead. you can't compete with asians.Asians do it better and cheaper. First came the Japanese, now the Chinese and the Indians...I recently saw a documentary called "The Chinese are Coming" (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/chinese-are-coming/) which is quite startling.
Last edited by demha on May 31st, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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AndyNguyen
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June 1st, 2011, 9:17 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976you have to go to the career web sites of the MBA programs at Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, etc. They provide detailed information for several years, which countries the students are coming from and which countries they are taking employment and the salaries which the MBA students are getting in the different countries along with the number of MBA students taking jobs in each country. For PhD students, it is just my personal knowledge having interacted with them for many years. The PhD programs also provide information which universities the students are joining each year. i have got the links in one of my files.Thanks for the tipJust out of curiosity, I went to Harvard MBA websitehttp://www.hbs.edu/recruiting/mba/data-and-sta ... ics.htmlAt the bottom, they haveHistorical Career Placement Statistics by LocationYear US Asia/South Pacific2001 80% 4%2002 78% 5%2003 80% 6%2004 81% 6%2005 84% 6%2006 82% 5%2007 82% 6%2008 80% 6%2009 77% 8%2010 80% 8%So less than 10% Harvard MBA has gone to Asia for work during the last 10 years.I can go to other MBA programs, look at the numbers but I don't see any reason how one can come up with the conclusion that 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China.
 
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traderjoe1976
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June 1st, 2011, 9:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AndyNguyenQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976you have to go to the career web sites of the MBA programs at Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, etc. They provide detailed information for several years, which countries the students are coming from and which countries they are taking employment and the salaries which the MBA students are getting in the different countries along with the number of MBA students taking jobs in each country. For PhD students, it is just my personal knowledge having interacted with them for many years. The PhD programs also provide information which universities the students are joining each year. i have got the links in one of my files.Thanks for the tipJust out of curiosity, I went to Harvard MBA websitehttp://www.hbs.edu/recruiting/mba/data-and-sta ... ics.htmlAt the bottom, they haveHistorical Career Placement Statistics by LocationYear US Asia/South Pacific2001 80% 4%2002 78% 5%2003 80% 6%2004 81% 6%2005 84% 6%2006 82% 5%2007 82% 6%2008 80% 6%2009 77% 8%2010 80% 8%So less than 10% Harvard MBA has gone to Asia for work during the last 10 years.I can go to other MBA programs, look at the numbers but I don't see any reason how one can come up with the conclusion that 90% of them are turning down offers in USA and taking jobs in Hongkong, Singapore, and mainland China.That data is accurate. Less than 10% of Harvard MBAs, but that is 90% of the Harvard MBAs who are from China. 65% of Harvard MBAs are from USA, plus a large number from Europe and South America.I did not say that 90% of Harvard MBAs are taking jobs in China. I said that 90% of Harvard MBAs who are from China are taking jobs in China / Singapore / Hongkong and the salaries they are getting are equal to what they would have got in USA. Plus in Singapore and Hongkong they pay 15% tax rate.
 
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quantmeh
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June 1st, 2011, 10:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: demhaQuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehi just looked at the web site. it's quite startling. it makes you think twice whether you want to go to CMU MSCF. the field is dead. you can't compete with asians.Asians do it better and cheaper. First came the Japanese, now the Chinese and the Indians...japanese are different. they don't have a tendency to hire only japanese. did you see a group where all employees were japanese only? unlikely when you compete with japanese, you compete with japanese. when you compete with asians, you're simply filtered out. you can swing your bat as much as you want, nobody will pitch you a ball.
Last edited by quantmeh on June 1st, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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capafan2
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June 2nd, 2011, 12:03 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: demhaQuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehi just looked at the web site. it's quite startling. it makes you think twice whether you want to go to CMU MSCF. the field is dead. you can't compete with asians.Asians do it better and cheaper. First came the Japanese, now the Chinese and the Indians...japanese are different. they don't have a tendency to hire only japanese. did you see a group where all employees were japanese only? unlikely when you compete with japanese, you compete with japanese. when you compete with asians, you're simply filtered out. you can swing your bat as much as you want, nobody will pitch you a ball.That is brazenly true about Russian Jews as well. The only difference is they will hire you to do the grunt work but will shamelessly take the credit. I know one investment back (Huge one) where even the IT managers are practically all jewish. The same place they will expect the rest to do the work and without shame only hoard it for their russian jewish counterparts. If you are a russian jew who came here on political asylum you have more status there.As far as I have seen it Caucasians are about the only truly open lot. Asians will filter you out, but the sub-race I mentioned above will actively abuse your efforts.
 
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bearmf
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June 2nd, 2011, 1:23 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: demhaQuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehi just looked at the web site. it's quite startling. it makes you think twice whether you want to go to CMU MSCF. the field is dead. you can't compete with asians.Asians do it better and cheaper. First came the Japanese, now the Chinese and the Indians...japanese are different. they don't have a tendency to hire only japanese. did you see a group where all employees were japanese only? unlikely when you compete with japanese, you compete with japanese. when you compete with asians, you're simply filtered out. you can swing your bat as much as you want, nobody will pitch you a ball.That is brazenly true about Russian Jews as well. The only difference is they will hire you to do the grunt work but will shamelessly take the credit. I know one investment back (Huge one) where even the IT managers are practically all jewish. The same place they will expect the rest to do the work and without shame only hoard it for their russian jewish counterparts. If you are a russian jew who came here on political asylum you have more status there.As far as I have seen it Caucasians are about the only truly open lot. Asians will filter you out, but the sub-race I mentioned above will actively abuse your efforts.What about simply Russians? There is a stereotype that they don't like to help each other (among Russians themselves)).
 
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capafan2
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June 2nd, 2011, 2:10 am

QuoteWhat about simply Russians? There is a stereotype that they don't like to help each other (among Russians themselves)).That I don't know. From what I have seen they tend to prefer one another. Maybe the key bonding between the ones I have seen prefering one another are jewish first and russian next. Secondly I have seen them turn against one another only when there is not outsider to mutually work against. But then maybe I am just extrapolating too much. Lastly I have been seriously amused by russian's thinking of other east europeans like "romanians" as inferior. But I sure the rest of the world finds the indian caste system or the hutu tutsi rwandan issues just as amusing.
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