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scmjsd2
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June 6th, 2011, 7:53 am

Race as a factor in Quant careers and on Quant courses seems a perfectly valid topic to me, admittedly a politically incorrect one for modern Westerners.
 
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capafan2
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June 6th, 2011, 11:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: scmjsd2Race as a factor in Quant careers and on Quant courses seems a perfectly valid topic to me, admittedly a politically incorrect one for modern Westerners.Unfortunately it is true in all careers as you start growing. Furthermore since it is a taboo to discuss or acknowledge, it brews more with people either denying it and staying confused or flagrantly indulging in it while constantly rationalizing it to themselves. Hopefully with dissolving borders this problem should go away in a few years as in my opinion it contributes to a lot of inefficiency. Organizations in general are intolerant towards it as they recognize the serious costs of it but there is very little they can do about it.
 
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quantmeh
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June 6th, 2011, 11:49 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2Organizations in general are intolerant towards it as they recognize the serious costs of it but there is very little they can do about it.organizations don't give a damn about this "problem". what can they do? quotas? that sounds stupid. you can't prove that in a quant group filled 90% by asians, this is not merely a statistical fluke. you have to beyond this one organization to prove these trends, and this is a job outside the HR's job description or power
Last edited by quantmeh on June 5th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scmjsd2
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June 6th, 2011, 11:55 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: scmjsd2Race as a factor in Quant careers and on Quant courses seems a perfectly valid topic to me, admittedly a politically incorrect one for modern Westerners.Unfortunately it is true in all careers as you start growing. Furthermore since it is a taboo to discuss or acknowledge, it brews more with people either denying it and staying confused or flagrantly indulging in it while constantly rationalizing it to themselves. Hopefully with dissolving borders this problem should go away in a few years as in my opinion it contributes to a lot of inefficiency. Organizations in general are intolerant towards it as they recognize the serious costs of it but there is very little they can do about it.I meant Race not Racism. I believe global capitalism, which one finds in such a pure form within an Investment Bank, is not directly racist. Racism denies banks cheap labour. Quant jobs indirectly discriminate on Race due to differences in ability (think how few Black Quants there are) and numbers ( think of billions of Chinese and Indians who can travel fairly freely to the West versus diminishing numbers of ethnic Europeans )
 
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capafan2
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June 6th, 2011, 12:05 pm

QuoteI meant Race not Racism. I believe global capitalism, which one finds in such a pure form within an Investment Bank, is not directly racist. Racism denies banks cheap labour. Quant jobs indirectly discriminate on Race due to differences in ability (think how few Black Quants there are) and numbers ( think of billions of Chinese and Indians who can travel fairly freely to the West versus diminishing numbers of ethnic Europeans )Very few places (except the outright pathological ones which get screwed anyways) actively discriminate based on race. Most often when people are hired they are hired purely on the basis of skills and personality. How many people come out of the interview with a good candidate and pretend the candidate was bad based on their race? The trouble begins brewing after a person joins the firm. Then societal pressures and prejudices take over. When you really talk to people there is not much different across races. Having made friends across all cultures , white, black, asian, russians, I am convinced there are no big differences. Which is what makes this whole race business pointless. In the end it is just and exercise in personal superiority and status indulgence. Race is valuable crutch when indulging in this nonsense. Other times people use school pedigree , its the same thing, although the later is a lot more acceptable.
 
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nyasha
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June 6th, 2011, 12:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: scmjsd2Quant jobs indirectly discriminate on Race due to differences in ability (think how few Black Quants there are) and numbers ( think of billions of Chinese and Indians who can travel fairly freely to the West versus diminishing numbers of ethnic Europeans ) Did you post a very similarly phrased comment on youtube? Youtube comment by scmjsd2I am curious to know why you feel so threatened by other ethnicities? We're all people. If you feel so threatened, why don't you try having a chat and breaking the ice with people? You'll find there's a lot less to be worried about than you think, and that we've got a lot more in common, between us all, than we have by way of differences. I'm not going to debate with you over your statements about ethnicity in the quant arena, because I think you just need to spend more time understanding other people. It's really not anything to do with quant work. But feel free to PM me about this, happy to help if I can. I know it's difficult to reach out to people who are from different places, but there are ways to achieve a level of comfort where you don't feel mistrust and suspicion, and I hope I can provide some useful insights.
Last edited by nyasha on June 5th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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quantmeh
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June 6th, 2011, 1:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: nyashaI am curious to know why you feel so threatened by other ethnicities? because they threaten you
 
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capafan2
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June 6th, 2011, 2:04 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: nyashaI am curious to know why you feel so threatened by other ethnicities? because they threaten youNo they dont. First of all you need to give this a rest. And no one threatens you. That's all in your mind. I do not feel threatened by anyone and most people I know do not either. Secondly you need to ask yourself how many people you threaten because of your persecution complex. If you wish to argue you are on your own from here. But your comments make me sick. It simply helps me understand my ex-boss better. He wanted me to be good but not that good. He only wanted to promote his clan (I don't even want to mention it here but you know). The worse part was that he was born in the US. In the end it is your lack of social skills and prejudice which contributes to your behaviour. And I am signing off from this conversation.
 
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nyasha
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June 6th, 2011, 2:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: nyashaI am curious to know why you feel so threatened by other ethnicities? because they threaten youFollowing on from my previous message, if you walk in the world seeing danger where there is difference, then you are missing out on the richness of life.Can you say for certain that everyone you encounter who is of a different ethnicity threatens you? When you think that they do, doesn't it bring your world view to an unbearably bleak perspective? So why not free yourself? Imagine being free of these perceptions and just feeling at ease, wherever you are. Try speaking to someone the next time you're in a cafe or something, about the weather or the queue. It's small steps like these that change your perception of other people. You'll begin to see them as just people, not some object of fear or threat. I thought this topic was irrelevant to the quant sphere, but could it be that it's really a function of spending so much time alone studying or working on abstract problems, that perceptions of other people become skewed due to lack of social interaction?
Last edited by nyasha on June 5th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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quantmeh
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June 6th, 2011, 2:46 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2He only wanted to promote his clan that's what i don't like. i like a diverse environment with a reasonable proportion of women vs men, Caucasians vs colored people etc.it simply doesn't make any sense to see 95% male IT personnel. they can argue all day long that "girls don't like computers", i don't buy this bullshit. this country is roughly 50/50 in terms of male/female division, there's no reasonable explanation to have all male in IT. the same goes with quants. you can't make an argument that only asians like math and programming, therefore a quant group in 9 asians out of 10 people. this simply doesn't make any sense.
 
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demha
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June 6th, 2011, 3:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehit simply doesn't make any sense to see 95% male IT personnel. they can argue all day long that "girls don't like computers", i don't buy this bullshit. this country is roughly 50/50 in terms of male/female division, there's no reasonable explanation to have all male in IT. the same goes with quants. you can't make an argument that only asians like math and programming, therefore a quant group in 9 asians out of 10 people. this simply doesn't make any sense.Not trying to prolong this debate, but a friend of mine works in a more glamorous industry and is the exact opposite of what we are talking about here. Almost everyone in that industry is Caucasian and that seems to be an accepted fact of life. Your IQ is irrelevant to that industry; nothing but the colour of your skin, eyes or hair matter too much.It may be just that even if there's an equal proportion of ethnicities who like maths and programming, there's a barrier to different ethnicities in different types of professions. In the industry where my friend works, you can forget about it unless you have certain physical characteristics. On a final note; the day the Asians take over Hollywood and learn to rap properly, we can say Goodbye to America
Last edited by demha on June 5th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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nyasha
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June 6th, 2011, 7:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: nyashaI am curious to know why you feel so threatened by other ethnicities? because they threaten youWell quantmeh and scmjsd2, you're not getting away from this so easily. As an experiment, try talking to just one random person of a different ethnicity in a cafe, and tell us how it goes. Is it threatening, ex-post??
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