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trackstar
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December 13th, 2011, 2:00 pm

Maybe Dominic can supply a seasoned opinion on that.However, I did not say fight hard or be unrealistic.If the firm wants him or her and yet the offer is quite low, I should think that they should be able to come up somewhere between 5 - 10K and who would not pick that up if it were lying in the street in a white envelope?Then you can focus on being productive in your new work place.
 
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EscapeArtist999
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December 13th, 2011, 2:05 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarMaybe Dominic can supply a seasoned opinion on that.However, I did not say fight hard or be unrealistic.If the firm wants him or her and yet the offer is quite low, I should think that they should be able to come up somewhere between 5 - 10K and who would not pick that up if it were lying in the street in a white envelope?Then you can focus on being productive in your new work place.Trackstar, I had forgotten that you obviously know everything. Silly me.
Last edited by EscapeArtist999 on December 12th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trackstar
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December 13th, 2011, 2:07 pm

Brown1234, good luck to you, whether you negotiate or not. EA - good luck to you as well - keep on fighting with anonymous strangers where it really matters - which is of course, the Careers Forum.
Last edited by trackstar on December 12th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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EscapeArtist999
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December 13th, 2011, 2:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarBrown1234, good luck to you, whether you negotiate or not. EA - good luck to you as well - keep on fighting with anonymous strangers where it really matters - which is of course, the Careers Forum. That's a real insult coming from someone who obviously has so little to do with their time that they are on the forums everyday all day. I'm really hurt.
Last edited by EscapeArtist999 on December 12th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trackstar
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December 13th, 2011, 2:14 pm

Ha ha! Perhaps you should loosen your collar a little, seems like it might be getting a bit tight around your neck... My only comment to job seekers is - just try to improve the offer a little bit.The offer should not disappear immediately - the worst they can say is ~ "No, we are already at the high end of the range for that position" and then you can take it or leave it.No shame in that, in my opinion, as long as you have been polite and mature through the process.
Last edited by trackstar on December 12th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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EscapeArtist999
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December 13th, 2011, 2:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarHa ha! Perhaps you should loosen your collar a little, seems like it might be getting a bit tight around your neck...That's so funny my woolly mammoth had a heart attack from laughing.
 
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trackstar
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December 13th, 2011, 2:19 pm

I still think that you will be an entrepreneur some day.You have too much spirit to live on a cube farm your entire life!
 
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EscapeArtist999
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December 13th, 2011, 2:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarHa ha! Perhaps you should loosen your collar a little, seems like it might be getting a bit tight around your neck... My only comment to job seekers is - just try to improve the offer a little bit.The offer should not disappear immediately - the worst they can say is ~ "No, we are already at the high end of the range for that position" and then you can take it or leave it.No shame in that, in my opinion, as long as you have been polite and mature through the process.But what you are not factoring in is that maybe by being a bit testy during the process the guy you report to feels a bit put out, is less helpful cos he feels like you're less of a team player, etc. And it is his first finance job with a math PhD - it is likely that he has ZERO proven value. People without PROVEN value always come off cocksure when trying to negotiate. Ask yourself this Trackstar. Did this job cpme thru a headhunter - surely then the headhunter would push for more if he thought he could suck out an extra 5-10Did the job come thru a personal reference - well then things may get sticky. Did it come through recruiting at a a school - in which case our candidate already has been exposed to some salary info - in fact if you read an earlier post the guy already has some info.It seems quite possible tht this is a crap line of thinking and attitude which leads to poor performance. Start your job with the best possible setup t succeed (not pushing the expectations of your employer into the heaven by arguing over a trivial amount of cash)And I don't workin a cubicle.
Last edited by EscapeArtist999 on December 12th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DominicConnor
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December 13th, 2011, 3:34 pm

At quant entry level base pay varies little within a given firm, except...Except If you have a skill they really really want, which correlates with being good but be clear that it is not the same thing.Bonuses are really tricky for me to figure out at first year because we're dealing with fractions of years.EscapeArtist asks the most important question "So he should risk losing the offer over 5k pa? Or feel shit about himself cos he's getting 50 as opposed to 60 ?"The answer is maybe...Base pay at entry level is highly correlated with the nature of what they've hired you as...For want of a better word I divide this into three categories that most quantish slot into which correlates with education, ie PhD, MSc and BSc.Be clear that just because you have a PhD doesn't mean you've been hired into a PhD slot and that applies to the others.I don't think I'm sharing a shocking insight when I say that some employers ever so slightly pimp up the job to newbies...So pay is a good and objective signal about where you are entering the food chain, think of it as a N-arty tree where you start at the bottom or a leaf but some bottoms are better to start in than others, being basically higher in the tree.So if your employer pays all people of a given bottom node 58K then you know where you are.A corollary to this is that you should ignore small differences between different job offers since they represent rank and which pay survey HR use, though I believe that very roughly there is still a correlation between firms that pay more and those that have better prospects for you, but there exist some fierce counterexamples.Is it worth trying to get more money ?I don't know in general and it depends on how you do it.A valid technique in any negotiation is what I tend to call the drop 5%, you say "yes, it's an interesting offer, call it X *1.05 and we'll shake hands now"That has the virtue of showing you can negotiate but more importantly that you don't piss people around. One of the most important things to achieve in getting a job is a "soft landing", quick clear negotiations will make your boss think well of you and by asking for 5% you get more money without mean reversion, it's realistic and if they refuse you don't seem like someone who if he asks for 100% will settle for 50%, being a settler for 95% is not a bad image.By mean reversion I mean the way some managers adjust down you bonus if they think you got too much base, this varies reasonably well with how close to front office you get and typically getting X more base than your boss things you should have got will often cost you more than X in bonus.I will now go to try and force UCEM to tell me what newbies earn, it will be bloody, only one of us will walk away from that fight, if it is not me that survives, remember me.
 
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brown1234
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December 13th, 2011, 3:55 pm

Thanks, Dominic. If you don't survive I will put of a statue in your memory.
 
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DominicConnor
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December 15th, 2011, 4:33 pm

Thanks first year pay is such a pain to tease out the edge effects.
 
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DDUKON
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December 20th, 2011, 9:26 am

What if somebody enters a quant space after 5-6 years of IT/BA experience ?
 
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QuantOrDie
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December 22nd, 2011, 4:19 am

Then you are called a quant dev with no experience and paid accordingly.
 
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DominicConnor
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December 22nd, 2011, 8:04 am

QuantOrDie is right that an IT/BA is most probably going to be some sort of quant developer, though sometimes they have experience that means they have a sort of team management role to instil process and QA into the quant s/w development.Here is the average first year total pay for quanitsh people in London Base, Bonus, Benefits£ 58214 £ 14746 £ 5723
 
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DevonFangs
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December 22nd, 2011, 2:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorQuantOrDie is right that an IT/BA is most probably going to be some sort of quant developer, though sometimes they have experience that means they have a sort of team management role to instil process and QA into the quant s/w development.Here is the average first year total pay for quanitsh people in London Base, Bonus, Benefits£ 58214 £ 14746 £ 5723This year I'm short the second number.
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