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ChicagoGuy
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July 16th, 2012, 8:22 pm

Hi,Has anyone heard of Irevna/CRISIL, how good of a company they are?Thanks
 
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traderjoe1976
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July 16th, 2012, 9:12 pm

I know this company. This is an Indian company. They do a lot of outsourced work in the Analytics domain. They have a good reputation in India. They have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client project. The key is to check the resumes of the people who are actually assigned to your outsourced project. If your project requires very high level intellectual work, you want to make sure that the people working on the project have IIT / IIM / USA Masters / PhD background. If it is routine work, then you will be quite happy with their service and their pricing.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 4:17 am

Quote IIT / IIM / USA Masters / PhD background.I work with a lot of IIT folks where I do. Some of them are really good at managing a project but most are just self-entitled. Like being from IIT gives them a monopoly over being considered most knowledgable. A civil engineer from IIT is not better than a good technology or a quantitative person with the right background and experience. There is also a lot of nepotism around IIT'ians. It is practically instinctive. I work with one who tries to pick my brain so he can pretend to be smart to his senior management. I think he is a decent guy like others like him but the social pressures get to him. I let him pick my brain then then send him an email about something I forgot to mention and copy a lot of people on it. I think it annoys him.
Last edited by capafan2 on July 16th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lexington
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July 17th, 2012, 9:47 am

QuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years?
 
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Hansi
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July 17th, 2012, 9:50 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years? A lot of PhDs taking on their first job have zero business knowledge, same can most likely be said for a lot of MBAs that are using the MBA to move from say a IT to a management role.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 2:01 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiQuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years? A lot of PhDs taking on their first job have zero business knowledge, same can most likely be said for a lot of MBAs that are using the MBA to move from say a IT to a management role.Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. They will be doing something which generates revenue or supports revenue. A large number of these firms put their folks on client billable work offshore. The work is not excessively hard and a smart person can manage it in half the time. The other 3/4th of the time they train these folks by getting them engaged on internal projects or multiple projects. It works well if you have very driven people. The type you find in IIT, IIM and Phd. Peer pressure plays a great role. You hire them on the lower end of the totem pole and promise them fast promotions if.... Very soon they will be competing like chimps over a banana.
 
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EscapeArtist999
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July 17th, 2012, 3:44 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiQuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years? A lot of PhDs taking on their first job have zero business knowledge, same can most likely be said for a lot of MBAs that are using the MBA to move from say a IT to a management role.Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. They will be doing something which generates revenue or supports revenue. A large number of these firms put their folks on client billable work offshore. The work is not excessively hard and a smart person can manage it in half the time. The other 3/4th of the time they train these folks by getting them engaged on internal projects or multiple projects. It works well if you have very driven people. The type you find in IIT, IIM and Phd. Peer pressure plays a great role. You hire them on the lower end of the totem pole and promise them fast promotions if.... Very soon they will be competing like chimps over a banana.Maybe they don't pay very much...
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 4:12 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiQuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years? A lot of PhDs taking on their first job have zero business knowledge, same can most likely be said for a lot of MBAs that are using the MBA to move from say a IT to a management role.Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. They will be doing something which generates revenue or supports revenue. A large number of these firms put their folks on client billable work offshore. The work is not excessively hard and a smart person can manage it in half the time. The other 3/4th of the time they train these folks by getting them engaged on internal projects or multiple projects. It works well if you have very driven people. The type you find in IIT, IIM and Phd. Peer pressure plays a great role. You hire them on the lower end of the totem pole and promise them fast promotions if.... Very soon they will be competing like chimps over a banana.Maybe they don't pay very much...If you are going to hire from IITs and IIMs you will have to pay a decent amount. Attrition rates are high in India. People change jobs for more money easily. Plus culturally India is a lot more nosy than say USA or UK. People want to know how much you make and they will find out eventually. If only because your refusal to divulge information will be interpreted as you being a loser who does not make that much. As someone from IIT or IIM you are already too big in the head and very deeply invested in believing that you are superior. Will you tolerate people from lesser institutes making more money than you. Kids these days are all about instant gratification. Two years is a generation away.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 4:21 pm

QuoteMaybe they don't pay very much...I don't know if it is a practice still followed but one bank from the southern hemisphere used to make a very inflated pay package to you. Instead of salary the numbers were cost to the company. They offered free meals in the afternoon / evening (which most skipped) and the notional price was huge ($100 per meal instead of $10). They would also estimate the rental cost of the 5 by 5 square footage you sat into the office, apportioned over-heads to that space and a lot more. That way you could tell your friends that you make a lot more than you really make (like 600k vs 200k). I thought they demonstrated a very unique and keen understanding of the Indian culture. Now you could get the best of the breed and pay them peanuts while still allowing them to boast to their peers. Brilliant!!
Last edited by capafan2 on July 16th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ppauper
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July 17th, 2012, 4:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. .there's training and there's training.Maybe they expect you to work full time and study in your own time ?
 
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Hansi
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July 17th, 2012, 5:17 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiQuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteThey have a very good 2-year training program for new hires before they are allowed to work on a client projectthey hire PhDs and MBAs and train them for 2 years? A lot of PhDs taking on their first job have zero business knowledge, same can most likely be said for a lot of MBAs that are using the MBA to move from say a IT to a management role.Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. I took it to mean training on the side while people work like grad placement etc., not all the time.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 5:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. .there's training and there's training.Maybe they expect you to work full time and study in your own time ?It is the latter. Once you tie up promotions, perks, raises, bonuses on things like that people fall in line. When your peers fall in line you fall in line or are fired. In on prominent IB it has a term for it - It covers everything from arranging refreshments and condiments for internal seminars to creating lots useless products in the hope that something nice will turn up for free. And people used to die to be on these internal projects.Other places especially the top 4 consulting firms has something similar. Lots of useless white papers, prototypes , PPT slides emerge from this. People get burnt out. Pure rubbish gets produced but every once in a while something nice comes out. If it is from you, that year you are a hero, the next year ... that is another story. And you do all this along with your regular job.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 5:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: capafan2Still - no one hires you and trains you for two years. .there's training and there's training.Maybe they expect you to work full time and study in your own time ?And the training you do goes under some fictitious training budget - mostly it is canned training and lots of your effort. That way companies can claim tax credit for it.
 
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traderjoe1976
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July 17th, 2012, 9:02 pm

The training program is two years and covers 56 modules listed below:CRISIL training programI have found the IIT / IIM grads to have much better self-discipline, much better work ethic, willingness to work 60-70 hours a week without whining, and much superior intelligence than the grads from other universities in India. So even if they initially lack the specific technical knowledge, the speed with which they assimilate the knowledge and the corresponding increase in their productivity makes them far more valuable.
 
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capafan2
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July 17th, 2012, 11:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976The training program is two years and covers 56 modules listed below:CRISIL training programI have found the IIT / IIM grads to have much better self-discipline, much better work ethic, willingness to work 60-70 hours a week without whining, and much superior intelligence than the grads from other universities in India. So even if they initially lack the specific technical knowledge, the speed with which they assimilate the knowledge and the corresponding increase in their productivity makes them far more valuable.You are from IIT & IIM. I think Ivy League syndrome is like vegetarianism. It is generally harmless except that it comes with a desperate superiority complex. While I will agree that IIT'ians and IIM's have superior intellect, I dispute that they have better work ethic. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand. Also the latter counts more in the business world and that is a X factor that you simply cannot judge in an interview easily. Attempting to use a proxy variable like ivyness of the school attended only generates bias which causes harm. I work with a truckload of IIT'ians. They are as mixed a bag as they come. Smart but not necessarily very useful. And they expect too much respect and get very upset when they do not get it. It is pathetic.
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