QuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEagleQuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnyep, that was excellent, EA. Points 1,2,3 were bang on. For point 3, I would append most of EU, with the possible exception of Germany where it is still respectable to be an engineer.good observation. where i work (here in the US) most developers are foreigners, with very few native born americans. ironically, i've noticed that those of my ethnicity that were born here, rarely ever go into s/w engineering, even tho the field is practically dominated by those of my ilk.i think the generally anti-intellectual nature of US culture, coupled with the emphasis on superficiality which leads younger folk to aim for the glamorous, management positions definitely plays a role.It's funny that you mention this: i've noticed that those of my ethnicity that were born here, rarely ever go into s/w engineering - I was at a conference in '07 and ran into Michael Milken (yes THE Michael Milken) - and there was an informal discussion amoungst a small group. During this discussion the came up that financial services adds more to the economy than it takes in terms of brain-drain (which if funds are generally flowing to well selected projects is a fair point - IF) it was then that something struck me - which I said: In all my years of being a math grad student - with the dept, the few conferences I'd been to, I had never met an Asian-American Math PhD student - I had met many from Asia (in fact they were usually better than me, annoying, lol) but never any that had grown up in the USA. That said, I kjewof many going into IB/MC from the undergraduate student body, and had met many at the school's MBA programme's mixers - yes the typical grad student crasing a party that i wasn't invited to. LOL. What I find most ironic about the situation in the USA is that the country was built on the premise that you work hard and get to live the good life (which in all fairness even now is better than many places - i.e. no-one has shoulder callossed skin from hauling sulfur for 3c an hour) and well the popular culture has drifted very far away.One can see this at the earlier stages of education.Study hard at school Get into Ivy leagueGo to IB/MC or professional school - Med (and to a lessor extent these days, Law)Basically the idea is to trick (or tip heavily) the doorman so you can be in an elitist club - anything tht somebody can learn on the web has no cache, it may help you get some bread, but that's it. Being in an exclusive club... wll...Many of the undergrads I taught while in grad school had zero interest in much of what was taught. Alluding to the above their Ivy League degree was their ticket to higher marginal pay per unit of labour. And that's really it - managers do get a higher marginal unit of pay than do laborours (technical folk) - generally at least.Now I realise you could argue that these managers ar able to get 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 i.e. more out of the staff, and maybe that is true for some. Often it is the case that the laborour is bound by other things - visas. low self esteem, social awkwardness and the same sort of manipulation and browbeating that would have gone on at school happens again.The zeitgeist of the USA/UK has very much become that everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it - and the less something seems like labour the more people covet it.