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bluetrin
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 8:10 am

It depends of the organisation of the bank. Most of banks have them, a few banks do not have quants sitting in the trading team and use RAD IT teams to do the spreadsheet implementation work.For the banks who have them, you can count at least 1 per desk (a good average would be probably 1.2 to 1.5 per trading/structuring desk ?). Then you can extrapolate this to the number of investment banks and multiply this per location. You would have to take in account that in the less developed market you would have more of them as the library/core teams tend to be in the major hubs ?Is that a brainteaser question ?
 
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ashkar
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 10:30 am

yeah its like 'how many manholes in nyc'
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 10:36 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: ashkar200Maybe something more? Off the top of my head I would say there are at least 50 where I work, and it's only one of the big banks.seems alot.50? Front Office Desk Quants? Just in your Bank, in the sense of(Referring back to my original question in thread)FO QUANT DEFINITION: Many but not most with Phd's in math/physics/engineering with strong c++ skills who sits on trading floors of big banks fixing broken c++ code for traders who use it in excel spreadsheets?
Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ashkar
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 10:40 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: ashkar200Maybe something more? Off the top of my head I would say there are at least 50 where I work, and it's only one of the big banks.I have only vague idea of how it is in other banks. By his definition of 'FO quant' I think he is referring to desk jockies in the quant team. As Bluerin mentioned, I would say around 3-4 per asset class per bank. Rest of the team sits separately from trading. Maybe its different in other banks?
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 11:00 am

well it wasnt intended to be an interview kind of question. I guess it was quite a dumb/annoying question to ask.I have been reading up about quant finance positions. I always read about FO desk quants in all the quant guides/forums/books like joshi, , ederman, A. Kunzetsov, P&D. And I am still not really sure what they do or how many really are FO desk quants. The word Quant is braded around so much, everywhere I read on this forum and my readings on nuclearphynance and quantnet forumsI see from the recent michaelpage Front Offi ce Banking.. 2013 report they say salarys are in Sterling (London?)Associate/manager 55,000-75,000 bonus % 30-70VP/AD 65,000-90,000 bonus % 30-100So some Phd or some other guy, with strong c++ who slipped into a a FO quant desk job might expect no less than 50K.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 11:07 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ashkarBy his definition of 'FO quant' I think he is referring to desk jockies in the quant team. when you say, desk jockies in the quant team, kind of implies there is a team of 6 FO quants say 22 traders, in the 6 quants there are 1-2 C++ desk jockies. So there is a FO quant team, not all do c++ so much, say the front office quant structurer and the front office quant manager and two other random dudes who are somehow front office quants but dont fix C++ code.
Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 11:16 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ashkar Rest of the team sits separately from trading. So there is another team of guys, many with Phd's but most not, who do derivatives pricing for new products being punted by the traders in FO, but are not in FO? Is the trading floor of a Big bank front office? are there some other team in another room who do derivatives pricing ad hoc for traders?
Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 11:21 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalDidn't anyone tell you that a contribution to a conversation consisting only of questions isn't polite?Sorry, I wasnt trying to be inpolite. just seriously confused sometimes about who a FO quant is. But thankyou for your answers they were a help.
 
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spv205
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 12:11 pm

flashcrashI guess your definition is just totally confused. so as people said a bank might have 50-100 front office quants [who may or may not work directly on trading floor] who are responsible fro implementing models in C++. they are not simply fixing bugs... have a look at quantlib... that gives you an idea of what they are working on. whenever a new payoff comes along they are tasked with implementing itthen there are deskquants who are maybe 1 per asset class (or none- perhaps trader performs this role- depending on bank). They are less about programming and more about markets/risk analysis.... eg how well does eg the smile model perform in practise/ back testing etc. these quants know about the markets, bid offers etc, whereas the other FO quants are primarily programming - given a mathematical specification etc.then there are quants on buy side HFT/stat arb etc... and they all (>90%?) have PhDs... just because of competition
Last edited by spv205 on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ashkar
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 12:13 pm

Mate, instead of firing away questions after another, why dont you gather your thoughts and tell us what you really want to know? Do you want to know how quant teams are structured?
 
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bluetrin
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 12:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flashCrashQuoteOriginally posted by: ashkarBy his definition of 'FO quant' I think he is referring to desk jockies in the quant team. when you say, desk jockies in the quant team, kind of implies there is a team of 6 FO quants say 22 traders, in the 6 quants there are 1-2 C++ desk jockies. So there is a FO quant team, not all do c++ so much, say the front office quant structurer and the front office quant manager and two other random dudes who are somehow front office quants but dont fix C++ code.The typical setup would be that in every trading/structuring team, you will find a few guys doing spreadsheet and implementation work and working closely with the traders and structurers hoping to move to a FO position or learn trading strategies (although this is disappearing in IBs as the prop trading teams have been moved to the asset management part).The tools they would use are produced by another quant team which would have 1 team per line of products (interest rates, credit, ... etc). These are commonly called library or core quants and quant devs.Your definition of FO quant is what other people here would call a desk quant and corresponds to the first team which sits with traders and structurers.
Last edited by bluetrin on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 12:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: spv205flashcrashI guess your definition is just totally confused. so as people said a bank might have 50-100 front office quants [who may or may not work directly on trading floor] who are responsible fro implementing models in C++. they are not simply fixing bugs... have a look at quantlib... that gives you an idea of what they are working on. whenever a new payoff comes along they are tasked with implementing it .Yes these are the guys I have in my mind as Front Office quants, but they are not? What are these guys called then?
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 12:34 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: bluetrinThe typical setup would be that in every trading/structuring team, you will find a few guys doing spreadsheet and implementation work and working closely with the traders and structurers hoping to move to a FO position.These quants are not allready FO desk quants? do they slip of back to middle/back office to have their lunch.QuoteOriginally posted by: bluetrinThe tools they would use are produced by another quant team which would have 1 team per line of products (interest rates, credit, ... etc). These are commonly called library or core quants and quant devs.Are these the guys with very strong c++ skill, stochastic calculus and many but not most with Phd's ? even a quant dev? I thought quant devs where commonly found in IT ?QuoteOriginally posted by: bluetrinYour definition of FO quant is what other people here would call a desk quant and corresponds to the first team which sits with traders and structurers.Yes it would seem so. Are they the ones who get paid the most?Im really just trying to understand where in the bank the Phd's with stochastic calulus are who prodomiotatly code C++, what are they called and if teh yare not with the tradiong desks whats their division called.
Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Ok so I think I have it kinda figured out now.So a guy with strong c++ skills but also had strong PhD level stochastic calculus, pricing and hedging skills (i.e. over and above what a MFE grad would have), are not found in front office as a desk quants but instead are in another team specific to a particular line of products, say fixed income. And are are called library or core quants?
Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flashCrash
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do FO desk quants exist in the sense of...

March 25th, 2013, 1:23 pm

Last edited by flashCrash on March 24th, 2013, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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