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liam
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Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

biostats

May 8th, 2013, 11:31 pm

In terms of getting into biostatistics does anyone here have any tips? Also, what other areas of Maths would be worth looking into?I recently spoke to a lecturer at lshtm in London about this and he suggested getting a clinical data manager job, given that my most recent banking role used Excel and VBA, and progress to MSc and/or PHD studies in order to progress. I have gone through recommended revision book (as I haven't had a mathematically challenging in a long time) and I have had no problems getting backing into the maths involved.What would be the best approach to find such a "data manager" role and how essential is it to have a PHd in that field?The lecturer in question claimed an MSc would be enough, but it sounds eerily similar to what I was told when Doing my fin maths MSc and given the pain and severely restricted career options I faced in quant finance from not having a PHd, I'm not sure I want to risk it again.
 
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capafan2
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Joined: June 20th, 2009, 11:26 am

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 12:38 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: liamIn terms of getting into biostatistics does anyone here have any tips? Also, what other areas of Maths would be worth looking into?I recently spoke to a lecturer at lshtm in London about this and he suggested getting a clinical data manager job, given that my most recent banking role used Excel and VBA, and progress to MSc and/or PHD studies in order to progress. I have gone through recommended revision book (as I haven't had a mathematically challenging in a long time) and I have had no problems getting backing into the maths involved.What would be the best approach to find such a "data manager" role and how essential is it to have a PHd in that field?The lecturer in question claimed an MSc would be enough, but it sounds eerily similar to what I was told when Doing my fin maths MSc and given the pain and severely restricted career options I faced in quant finance from not having a PHd, I'm not sure I want to risk it again.I have a friend who does this. He mostly uses Hidden Markov Models and Baeysian Statistics. A lot of work is in developing Generative Models. Some place might have a place for GPU work. Others might use Hadoop and other massively parallel technologies. So depends on what you want to do. The technology side is Massively Parallel and High Performance Computing. The Data Science is around HMM's.
 
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jthomas781
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Joined: September 8th, 2011, 5:58 pm

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 6:04 am

I can only speak from experience in the US, so this might be of limited use to you. My impression is that the MHRA has similar attitudes to the FDA though.I think what capafan2 describes is bioinformatics not biostatistics. At least from what I've seen (4+ yrs in pharma), Biostatisticians will generally be using well known methods and using things like Bayesian statistics only when they perceive it will be favorably received by the FDA. Different agencies within the FDA have different opinions on Bayesian methods; usually it's not the standard.SAS is the standard software. It is not mandated by the FDA per se, but basically all drug and device submissions are done with SAS datasets / output / validated programs. You can google for the reasons for this, but, if you were working in biostats in the US, you could not avoid learning SAS.Computational issues do not drive biostats work. Datasets can be somewhat large (hundreds of thousands of records), but in a range that SAS can handle without appealing to the GPU for example. DNA based datasets in bioinformatics are much larger and I do not doubt that Hadoop / parallel computing are used. Since biostats people are basically at a confirmatory part in the process and bioinformatics people are at a data mining part of the process, the biostats issues are more like design of experiments, hypothesis testing, etc. The biostat part of the process is heavily influenced by the regulatory environment.In the US, data manager and biostatistician are separate tracks. A MS in Stats is the necessary condition to work as a biostatistician but basically anyone can work as a data manager as long as they can program SAS. Mobility to senior biostats roles will be limited if you only have the MS, but there are exceptions to the rule. A recent head of Pfizer's biostat department had a MS. A MS in Stats is considered a competitive advantage for getting a data manager role. If you had a PhD, people would question why you wanted to work as a data manager.The job of data manager revolves around the regulatory standards for datasets and TLFs (Tables Listings and Figures). Data will be collected through a paper or electronic CRF (Case Report Form) and that has to be put into datasets that conform to the regulatory standards (in the US, SDTM and ADaM) which in turn have to be put into TLFs that were prescribed by the pre-study SAP (statistical analysis plan) that would have been written by a senior biostatistician.Data manager is pretty good job IMHO. The pay is reasonable but will be less than Finance. There is usually a shortage of people who can do this work, so you have stable employability. There is not very much stress as the basic programming problems are usually straightforward but a lot of your time will be spent in minutia. It is a mix between an IT and quantitative job.Even though my experience is only in the US, I hope you find this helpful. Good luck.
Last edited by jthomas781 on May 8th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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liam
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Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 7:21 am

jthomas, I'm not sure if my question came across well and at risk of further confusing the issue (even though this shouldn't happen when it is in written form) what I'm trying to drive at is what chances do I have at getting a data manager role NOW to enable me to study in this field starting a course in 2014? What's been suggested is that I could revise for that role now by brushing up using a medical statistics book I was recommended. Are there alternative roles within that field that could bridge me into that field?I've got a few issues here1) My current role is a minimum wage as I couldn't find anything else, given my current situation.2) The last role I had in finance used zero maths and I have had little power in terms of returning myself to a more quantitative path. I continued down the business analysis path I was dumped in by a business restructuring in 2005 (as I had very little choice) and frankly paid through the nose for it by nearly getting sacked from my last role. Furthermore as the bank I was forced out of is actually doing ok, so employers in that field don't want to touch me with a barge pole as they can tell I failed there. I have looked for alternatives that would involve using more of my maths background but on the current market there aren't many junior roles that would enable me to retrain.3) What kind of job can I get in the meantime so I don't wind up bankrupt as my savings continue to get dwindled to the point where I will be living with my Dad before the end of 2013? I have searched high and low for temporary roles but they don't seem to exist within finance and I can't seem to see anything else that might use my skills. In effect where my career has taken me is to being a business analyst by experience with a quant background, people do not understand my CV or situation and have continuously misdirected me in that regard and I explained above continuing in the business analyst path simply isn't an option.
 
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liam
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Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 7:36 am

jthomas,Thanks for your reply, having read your reply again I think you understood where I'm coming from. I suppose understanding SAS might in theory give me a chance to get a data manager role, albeit against biostats MSc grads as competition. Thing is how would be best to get that kind of role?Sorry if the below misunderstood what you said, but the points below are quite important - I really do need to find something that funds me pretty quickly.
 
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jthomas781
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biostats

May 9th, 2013, 10:49 am

Hi Liam,I sympathize with your situation and have been in similar circumstances.The truth is I cannot answer your concerns in any reasonable way, because I know very little about the UK job markets (I do know that Big Pharma has a presence in the UK but that's about it).Having gone through the whole 'my resume does not tell a story' thing, my naive advice would be to a) learn SAS and b) be able to put things on your resume that show an active interest in the Pharma industry. The Pharma industry is relatively well-paid and competitive. People need to see something that tells them your application is more than 'Plan B'. SAS certificates show interest but cost money and internships show interest but cost time.In the US at least, a MS in Statistics is definitely not needed to work in data management. In my last group, I was one of two or three to have one out of thirty or forty. A MS in CS or Mathematics can be seen reasonably favorably. The majority of the people I've worked with in data management did not have an advanced degree that I knew of.P.S. I live with my wife, child, my two parents and my adult brother. That's just how we manage our situations. Parents are there to help for a reason - sometimes you need it.
 
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liam
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Joined: November 16th, 2004, 11:51 am

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 2:03 pm

Thanks for that, certainly gives me a bit of hope.As regards going back living with my Dad the problem is that it involves going back to Ireland where I have always found job markets to be 3rd rate for mathematicians, even during the so-called boom time. It just seems impractical to go back when I'll be applying for jobs in the UK. In Ireland it's always been either become something lowest common denominator like accountant or get lucky with the handful of companies that employ mathematicians in roles that suit them.
 
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neuroguy
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Joined: February 22nd, 2011, 4:07 pm

biostats

May 9th, 2013, 3:11 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: liamjthomas, I'm not sure if my question came across well and at risk of further confusing the issue (even though this shouldn't happen when it is in written form) what I'm trying to drive at is what chances do I have at getting a data manager role NOW to enable me to study in this field starting a course in 2014? What's been suggested is that I could revise for that role now by brushing up using a medical statistics book I was recommended. Are there alternative roles within that field that could bridge me into that field?I've got a few issues here1) My current role is a minimum wage as I couldn't find anything else, given my current situation.2) The last role I had in finance used zero maths and I have had little power in terms of returning myself to a more quantitative path. I continued down the business analysis path I was dumped in by a business restructuring in 2005 (as I had very little choice) and frankly paid through the nose for it by nearly getting sacked from my last role. Furthermore as the bank I was forced out of is actually doing ok, so employers in that field don't want to touch me with a barge pole as they can tell I failed there. I have looked for alternatives that would involve using more of my maths background but on the current market there aren't many junior roles that would enable me to retrain.3) What kind of job can I get in the meantime so I don't wind up bankrupt as my savings continue to get dwindled to the point where I will be living with my Dad before the end of 2013? I have searched high and low for temporary roles but they don't seem to exist within finance and I can't seem to see anything else that might use my skills. In effect where my career has taken me is to being a business analyst by experience with a quant background, people do not understand my CV or situation and have continuously misdirected me in that regard and I explained above continuing in the business analyst path simply isn't an option.Dude, I am sorry to hear that things are tough for you right now. Stop blaming other people and past circumstances. Move on. Focus on what you have got and move on from there. I know it sounds trite, but try and use your problems as examples of how you can overcome obstacles. Have you thought about trying to get into one of the big 4? They sometimes hire people with non-standard backgrounds.Alternatively, what about insurance? Is that a possibility?Keep going. Dont give up.
Last edited by neuroguy on May 8th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.