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Sprinter
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Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 13th, 2014, 6:47 pm

is it amusing for you you keep on asking and I keep on writing paragraphs getting a dog to bark for fun. I have a bachelors in computer engineering. the medium of all assignments and projects at university was c++. when I got employed as a graduate I learned perl and javascript to develop internet applications. if you are a seasoned programmer you should know more important are the programming techniques and program design such as memory management, run-time efficiency than knowing the syntax. In addition to undergraduate studies I completed a course on c++ with practical assignments and projects far better than reading a book unless you need specific knowledge. if you have read the post you should know what kind of positions I am looking for and you may have guessed where my passion is. if you mean tools by skills you are looking at it from a narrow perspective. of course expert level excel and what ever you expect from someone who has been in the finance industry for a few years. proficiency in tools is a secondary aspect. you need to have theoretical skills to implement practical solutions. if it were proficiency in tools majority of recruits to banks would have been computer science graduates. so you should realize. either the right people who know what I am talking about are not reading this post or this post has turned into a joke with I being provoked to write try to explain my point and these "professionals" who probably know less than quant analysis and financial markets than a school student trying to have party over an unemployed request for assistance.I wrote here hoping a recruiter or an industry practitioner would reply or message to me in private. I did get a message but I need help on getting recruited employed. if you are interested or you think you can help message me I will send you my resume you will get to know my skills. repeatedly asking about my skills not understanding my replies is a mockery of a jobseeker's plea.
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 11684
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 14th, 2014, 8:29 am

OK, let's decompose this into manageable chunks...Firstly Asia is a big place, which bit of Asia are you in ?Your statement "if you are a seasoned programmer you should know more important are the programming techniques and program design such as memory management, run-time efficiency than knowing the syntax"Is wrong, all the way wrong, the only good thing I have to say about it is that you aren't wrong in any new ways.1: You aren't a "seasoned programmer"2: Efficiency and design are good, but this is finance, what you need is to be able to talk efficiency and design. The quality of programming in finance is lower than in any industry of which I am aware, there are people writing code for banks who would be laughed out of non-finance firms where IT is run by adults. It's clear that you can't bullshit D&E well.Syntax is very important, far more important than writing good code. Your interview will have a huge % of stupid syntax questions, where someone shows you some absurdly complex bit of C++ code and asks you what it means. Ironically, some people get asked such questions based upon my posts on various forums including this.You need to watcha) House (all seasons)b) Margin Call (over and over again, leave it on during all your working hours)c) Downton AbbeyActually pretty much anything where British actors (Hugh Lawrie's "real" accent is quite close to mine) talk a lot. Your English needs fixing and it needs fixing bad.Paul Wilmott talks proper English wot like I does, though you've probably not seen me at all because you haven't watched the C++ videos, this s a mistake.Watch all the CQF videos, there is no shame in watching any of them N times.This is all because you don't talk like a real banker, you may ask how I can tell without hearing your voice ?I can't normally, but your written work leaves that beyond question.Next you need to scrap your CV, it's shit.Again I can tell this without seeing you because the skills you mention ought to score you some interviews.Then apply the algorithm that I've shared many times with people on Wilmott and if you go through the videos on the CQF, you will see one by me on how to do better CVs.The short version is:Write down in Excel a list of every skill and experience you have.Wait 3 daysRemember more to add to the listWait 3 daysGet drunk, remember more skills and experiencesThen look at job ads and see which of them you can make a case for getting.You've done Computing, the term missing from your thought processes is a "view" in the sense of databases, your CV is a view of the underlying data that describes your life.The quality of a view is defined by the utility of those accessing it, views are not stories.Be clear that you are selling something (yourself) that is far more expensive than a Ferrari or Rolls Royce and so it is worth tailoring your CV to each job.Do not lie at all even slightly
 
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Sprinter
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Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 16th, 2014, 1:27 pm

your reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.
 
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riskguru
Posts: 79
Joined: August 11th, 2004, 4:24 pm

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 16th, 2014, 4:13 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryour reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.Some unsolicited advice: Given that you are asking people in this forum for help and advice, humility and a thick skin would be useful! Most of the responses you are getting ARE trying to be useful, even if you disagree with them. Instead of reacting by telling them why they are wrong, perhaps it is useful to think through the merits of what they are saying?? They are all very qualified and experienced folks but you need to engage in a constructive dialog to benefit from that expertise.........
 
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AbhiJ
Posts: 748
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 11:29 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 16th, 2014, 4:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryour reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.Wilmott Career Forums is populated by several newbies and several disillusioned quant-s (not talking about DC). Some of the guys will discourage the hell of you. Having said please remember that the reason people do Masters degree in US is not to gain knowledge. In most cases they have the knowledge and experience. They do MBA/MFE to tap into the US job market. Being a US graduate makes it easy for employers to find you and to file a VISA application on your behalf. You have not mentioned how many papers of actuary you have passed So in short your options are- Gain relevant experience and apply for a top MFE- Apply for number of MFEs and go to a good program(If you can fund your education).
 
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Sprinter
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Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 16th, 2014, 7:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJQuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryour reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.Wilmott Career Forums is populated by several newbies and several disillusioned quant-s (not talking about DC). Some of the guys will discourage the hell of you. Having said please remember that the reason people do Masters degree in US is not to gain knowledge. In most cases they have the knowledge and experience. They do MBA/MFE to tap into the US job market. Being a US graduate makes it easy for employers to find you and to file a VISA application on your behalf. You have not mentioned how many papers of actuary you have passed So in short your options are- Gain relevant experience and apply for a top MFE- Apply for number of MFEs and go to a good program(If you can fund your education).I don't have the funds to pay for an mfe. an mfe is a huge investment and even a loan seems a mortgage. If I could get relevant experience I would have been employed. So thats the problem. not finding a relevant position locally and having the visa issue when applying abroad. I understand its easier to get visa sponsorship on graduation abroad. I do have a quantitative masters from a top rated uk school after which I studied for and passed the actuarial exams. just appeared for the cfa level 3 exam and have completed cqf. so for me studying further is like spending the life studying and not getting what one actually desires from education. if I pass the exam I will be a cfa, msc, actuary, cqf and will you still advise an mfe? do you not think I can get a job just by way of education and 0 experience though I do have finance industry experience.
 
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slacker
Posts: 114
Joined: January 14th, 2006, 12:21 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 16th, 2014, 10:35 pm

Try to get a job in your locale and build some experience at this point. Visa sponsoring someone with no experience is very very hard.Don't get caught up too much about whether it is a trading job or not or whether it has potential to morph into that at this point.
 
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Sprinter
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Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 7:27 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: slackerTry to get a job in your locale and build some experience at this point. Visa sponsoring someone with no experience is very very hard.Don't get caught up too much about whether it is a trading job or not or whether it has potential to morph into that at this point.I have six years of experience. I have worked in financial software consultancy, bank, asset management. I can't write the specifics but I do have relevant experience not core quant derivatives analysis but of investments, portfolio management, software development, market risk. If you think you can refer me to an industry practitioner please message me in private I can send you my resume. I do have the experience. and together with what I have studied I should get a suitable job. My experience locally has been not what I would expect after been studying for so long. I think I deserve a right job suiting my profile and carrying on with administrative and repetitive factory like tasks of where I was last employed (a lengthy sequence of button clicks comprising of several hours to generate reports, entering limit breaches into a slow painful non-userfriendly system, investigating operational errors, and arguing with and auditing traders rather than supporting) I decided to not to compromise and keep trying and wait till I get the right job.I am still waiting for a response from a recruiter or an industry professional. Instead of debating here you can ask for my resume and refer me to your line manager or to your hr.
 
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AbhiJ
Posts: 748
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 11:29 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 8:52 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: SprinterQuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJQuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryour reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.Wilmott Career Forums is populated by several newbies and several disillusioned quant-s (not talking about DC). Some of the guys will discourage the hell of you. Having said please remember that the reason people do Masters degree in US is not to gain knowledge. In most cases they have the knowledge and experience. They do MBA/MFE to tap into the US job market. Being a US graduate makes it easy for employers to find you and to file a VISA application on your behalf. You have not mentioned how many papers of actuary you have passed So in short your options are- Gain relevant experience and apply for a top MFE- Apply for number of MFEs and go to a good program(If you can fund your education).I don't have the funds to pay for an mfe. an mfe is a huge investment and even a loan seems a mortgage. If I could get relevant experience I would have been employed. So thats the problem. not finding a relevant position locally and having the visa issue when applying abroad. I understand its easier to get visa sponsorship on graduation abroad. I do have a quantitative masters from a top rated uk school after which I studied for and passed the actuarial exams. just appeared for the cfa level 3 exam and have completed cqf. so for me studying further is like spending the life studying and not getting what one actually desires from education. if I pass the exam I will be a cfa, msc, actuary, cqf and will you still advise an mfe? do you not think I can get a job just by way of education and 0 experience though I do have finance industry experience.Have you cleared all the actuarial papers - aka FSA. Depending on where you are in asia, you should contact the local headhunter ? It's rare for a FSA to not be able to find a job.If you want to work in NY/London/HK you can get transferred internally via IBanks, if you can get into one. The chances are NOT very high though and it will be a long process - minimum of 3 years.Having said that believe you are overestimating the value of CFA/CQF. One of my friend was working in Top 2 Global I Bank in Options Research. He tried his level best to move internally from Back Office(India) to Front Office(NY). He had worked for the I-Bank for 4 years. He had completed CFA/FRM, had very good programming skills and was the best performer among his peers. Inspite of all this he was not moved to US office. He did his MFE and is not working in Top 2 Asset Management Firm.
 
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bearish
Posts: 5615
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 10:01 am

Just a couple of random observations. First, Dominic says that your resume is shit not because you are lacking in credentials, but rather because with your claimed credentials you ought to at least get some interviews. Thus, the way your credentials are presented in your resume must be lacking. Second, the phrase "I think I deserve a right job" troubles me. Hiring managers don't like candidates who feel that they are entitled to stuff. Letting this attitude shine through can be a pretty big turn-off. Finally, your English sometimes fails you in odd ways. Nobody who has studied finance in English should produce a sentence like "an mfe is a huge investment and even a loan seems a mortgage".
Last edited by bearish on June 16th, 2014, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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xpatagon
Posts: 54
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 1:31 pm

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 2:07 pm

Sprinter, you seem to be well qualified, but the issue is not about your absolute qualifications, but your ability/qualifications relative to the competition. If you are applying to top tier international banks then they are receiving hundreds, if not thousands, of applications from people who are just as well qualified for the job as you are. In this case it boils down, as has been said already, to how well your CV sells yourself.Think of the situation where the recruiter has your CV in front of him and another one from someone with the same or better qualifications and experience, and who doesnt need a visa. What would make your CV more attractive despite requiring a visa? Go through your CV line by line with that thought in mind, asking yourself what each line is really saying and its relevance to the job you are applying for. For every job you apply for you should rewrite your CV specifically for the job. You want the employer to take a tremendous risk for you, so ask yourself how your CV shows that taking this risk is worthwhile. If you have special requirements (ie need a visa) simply listing qualifications and experience wont cut it.You claim to not be able to find a job in Asia. What sort of jobs are you applying for? If you are only applying for front office or close to front office jobs for top tier banks then yes it will be difficult, but there are thousands of lower profile companies out there that have active trading desks. Portfolio managers, oil companies, shipping companies, mining companies, big agribusiness, electricity companies etc all trade in active markets with complex products that in many cases are mathematically more challenging than a lot of bank products due to pecularities of physical markets. Are you looking at these industries as well?Also, be careful with your own thought processes. Once you have been unemployed for a while you start to lose perspective on how companies really work and your own abilities , which makes it harder to get a job and creates a vicious circle. If you are applying for international jobs the situation is even worse, because you have even less feel for the market. And yes, I have been in this situation personally (a year looking for job in a country where I am not a native speaker, didnt have contacts, where the markets I knew best are very little traded and my competition for jobs was generally better educated than me). Once you start thinking that the market owes you a job you need to take a couple of steps back and start over with a fresh perspective.
 
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secret2
Posts: 304
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 10:29 pm

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 2:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: xpatagonSprinter, you seem to be well qualified, but the issue is not about your absolute qualifications, but your ability/qualifications relative to the competition. If you are applying to top tier international banks then they are receiving hundreds, if not thousands, of applications from people who are just as well qualified for the job as you are. In this case it boils down, as has been said already, to how well your CV sells yourself.Think of the situation where the recruiter has your CV in front of him and another one from someone with the same or better qualifications and experience, and who doesnt need a visa. What would make your CV more attractive despite requiring a visa? Go through your CV line by line with that thought in mind, asking yourself what each line is really saying and its relevance to the job you are applying for. For every job you apply for you should rewrite your CV specifically for the job. You want the employer to take a tremendous risk for you, so ask yourself how your CV shows that taking this risk is worthwhile. If you have special requirements (ie need a visa) simply listing qualifications and experience wont cut it.You claim to not be able to find a job in Asia. What sort of jobs are you applying for? If you are only applying for front office or close to front office jobs for top tier banks then yes it will be difficult, but there are thousands of lower profile companies out there that have active trading desks. Portfolio managers, oil companies, shipping companies, mining companies, big agribusiness, electricity companies etc all trade in active markets with complex products that in many cases are mathematically more challenging than a lot of bank products due to pecularities of physical markets. Are you looking at these industries as well?Also, be careful with your own thought processes. Once you have been unemployed for a while you start to lose perspective on how companies really work and your own abilities , which makes it harder to get a job and creates a vicious circle. If you are applying for international jobs the situation is even worse, because you have even less feel for the market. And yes, I have been in this situation personally (a year looking for job in a country where I am not a native speaker, didnt have contacts, where the markets I knew best are very little traded and my competition for jobs was generally better educated than me). Once you start thinking that the market owes you a job you need to take a couple of steps back and start over with a fresh perspective.True words
 
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Marco72
Posts: 128
Joined: March 14th, 2006, 11:09 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Sprinter: it's not clear what kind of jobs you have been looking for, but given that you post in this forum and mention the CQF, it's fair to assume you are looking for a position as a quant, rather than as a developer or actuary. If that's the case, how is anyone supposed to give you advice when you haven't even told us what you can do? You mentioned some stuff about Perl and Excel, but haven't said a word about your knowledge and experience in financial modelling. E.g., which pricing models have you coded up and know how to calibrate? What have you done since you finished the CQF?
 
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Sprinter
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Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 3:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJQuoteOriginally posted by: SprinterQuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJQuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryour reply is not characteristic of a quant come recruiter. if my resume is shit after cqf and studying for and completing advance education I should better retire go into exile be a yogi and spiritually conceptualize the syntax of c++ programming language and what really are my skills some divine truth nobody knows. your response is discouraging not what should have been a right response from a course tutor and a recruiter for an aspiring graduate from your school. you are commenting without having looked at my resume. a right response would have been to ask for my resume in private and offered to help. this anonymous expression of comments will not get you to gauge my capabilities and hurling disgraceful remarks is only damaging to you and your institution.Wilmott Career Forums is populated by several newbies and several disillusioned quant-s (not talking about DC). Some of the guys will discourage the hell of you. Having said please remember that the reason people do Masters degree in US is not to gain knowledge. In most cases they have the knowledge and experience. They do MBA/MFE to tap into the US job market. Being a US graduate makes it easy for employers to find you and to file a VISA application on your behalf. You have not mentioned how many papers of actuary you have passed So in short your options are- Gain relevant experience and apply for a top MFE- Apply for number of MFEs and go to a good program(If you can fund your education).I don't have the funds to pay for an mfe. an mfe is a huge investment and even a loan seems a mortgage. If I could get relevant experience I would have been employed. So thats the problem. not finding a relevant position locally and having the visa issue when applying abroad. I understand its easier to get visa sponsorship on graduation abroad. I do have a quantitative masters from a top rated uk school after which I studied for and passed the actuarial exams. just appeared for the cfa level 3 exam and have completed cqf. so for me studying further is like spending the life studying and not getting what one actually desires from education. if I pass the exam I will be a cfa, msc, actuary, cqf and will you still advise an mfe? do you not think I can get a job just by way of education and 0 experience though I do have finance industry experience.Have you cleared all the actuarial papers - aka FSA. Depending on where you are in asia, you should contact the local headhunter ? It's rare for a FSA to not be able to find a job.If you want to work in NY/London/HK you can get transferred internally via IBanks, if you can get into one. The chances are NOT very high though and it will be a long process - minimum of 3 years.Having said that believe you are overestimating the value of CFA/CQF. One of my friend was working in Top 2 Global I Bank in Options Research. He tried his level best to move internally from Back Office(India) to Front Office(NY). He had worked for the I-Bank for 4 years. He had completed CFA/FRM, had very good programming skills and was the best performer among his peers. Inspite of all this he was not moved to US office. He did his MFE and is not working in Top 2 Asset Management Firm.your friend is lucky working on options research at backoffice. he seems to have an affinity with 2 his lucky charm may be he should get 2 tattooed on his arm. but let the joke aside. I have been looking at linkedin profiles and there are a lot of mscs cfas working in asset management divisions of investment banks and on the business side of market making sales and trading. you look at profiles of investment bankers and you will find very few mfes more cfas masters and phds. you search for cqf graduates and you will note cqfs are actually working in structuring, sales, trading, market risk, product control, development if not the core quant analyst roles usually reserved for phds from top schools.
 
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Sprinter
Topic Author
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

cqf graduate not finding a job

June 17th, 2014, 7:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: bearishJust a couple of random observations. First, Dominic says that your resume is shit not because you are lacking in credentials, but rather because with your claimed credentials you ought to at least get some interviews. Thus, the way your credentials are presented in your resume must be lacking. Second, the phrase "I think I deserve a right job" troubles me. Hiring managers don't like candidates who feel that they are entitled to stuff. Letting this attitude shine through can be a pretty big turn-off. Finally, your English sometimes fails you in odd ways. Nobody who has studied finance in English should produce a sentence like "an mfe is a huge investment and even a loan seems a mortgage".you don't seem to be well read. do you read newspapers magazines novels. if yes you wouldn't have found the phrase defective. you should get your comprehension skills improved. how do you place your credentials on your resume to make them stand out. you can bold highlight place at the top. if you have the credentials you have the credentials there is no way you can present them to gain extra value.
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