SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

bearish
Posts: 5615
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976These are expected salaries for Finance faculty at a State University.Finance Faculty salairesAs you can see, an Assistant Professor in Finance starts at around $200,000 for nine month salary.In addition to this, they get 2/9 for summer research support (about$50,000).After they get tenure, they could easily get an additional $100,000 to$500,000 in consulting fees.The admission rate is very low (usually less than 2%). Chicago takes about 4 Finance PhD students every year plus about 200 Physics PhD students and 200 Math PhD students and 100 Engineering PhD students.Most Finance PhDs opt for academic positions and they come to Wall Street only after they get denied tenure.Usually they start in Stat Arb area and within a few years they will be partners in one of the Hedge Funds. Very rare to find any of them in the IBs.Many MFE grads from Stanford, Princeton, Chicago, and Berkeley have gone on to do Finance PhD. You need to have MFE from a good school, be at the top of your MFE class with a good GPA, and get good reference letters from well-known faculty.PhD in USA is a long, tough, gruelling process which will take between five to seven years. You should think very carefully about the opportunity cost. Also, in the Finance Department, they want to train people for academic careers and not for Wall Street. So if you say that you want an industry job, you better apply for a Math PhD instead of a Finance PhD.I don't live in the US so I've no idea, but how much do those salaries contribute to the disproportional inflation of college tuition in the USA and do you think they are justified in terms of the opportunities they create for students. Are we sure this isn't just an indicator of a major flaw in the system.I think they are largely unrelated. They do have to be paid for, our course, but this is almost entirely done through MBA and various executive education programs. Credible sources pin much of the general inflation in the cost of US higher education on the enormous growth in university administrative personnel headcount (possibly itself a symptom as much as a cause; but aside from increased regulatory burdens, I am not quite sure of what) and very high capital expenditures on student life style enhancements like dorms, dining facilities, sports and recreational facilities, etc.

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

if you go and avail this opportunity you will find hard to disassociate yourself from these academic disciplines and teaching. I would still say you have the education you have the experience you should find a job.

riskguru
Posts: 79
Joined: August 11th, 2004, 4:24 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinterif you go and avail this opportunity you will find hard to disassociate yourself from these academic disciplines and teaching. I would still say you have the education you have the experience you should find a job.Your willingness to make these broad sweeping statements that seem to have (I think) very little basis in fact is quite astonishing! So let me give you some datapoints:Peter Carr, currently Global Head of Market Modelling, Morgan Stanley, PhD Finance from UCLALouis Scott: co-head of quant analytics at UBS till early this year, PhD Econ from Virginia and Finance faculty for a while (Illinois/Georgia)Lars Nielsen: Ran model review at Morgan Stanley for quite a while, PhD in Econ from Harvard. Finance faculty for a while (INSEAD/Columbia)Many of the people that I worked with who were a part of model review were PhDs either in finance or a related discipline from a school with a strong collaboration with the finance department. They are all still active and doing quite well for themselves. NONE of them had an MFE only. Perhaps the folks with MFE were sitting as part of Product Control??Does this mean doing a PhD in Finance gurantees anything?? Of course not! But I do think there are many folks who have taken that path and have done quite well for themselves. Enough said.......................

access1nash
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: riskguruQuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinterif you go and avail this opportunity you will find hard to disassociate yourself from these academic disciplines and teaching. I would still say you have the education you have the experience you should find a job.Your willingness to make these broad sweeping statements that seem to have (I think) very little basis in fact is quite astonishing! So let me give you some datapoints:Peter Carr, currently Global Head of Market Modelling, Morgan Stanley, PhD Finance from UCLALouis Scott: co-head of quant analytics at UBS till early this year, PhD Econ from Virginia and Finance faculty for a while (Illinois/Georgia)Lars Nielsen: Ran model review at Morgan Stanley for quite a while, PhD in Econ from Harvard. Finance faculty for a while (INSEAD/Columbia)Many of the people that I worked with who were a part of model review were PhDs either in finance or a related discipline from a school with a strong collaboration with the finance department. They are all still active and doing quite well for themselves. NONE of them had an MFE only. Perhaps the folks with MFE were sitting as part of Product Control??Does this mean doing a PhD in Finance gurantees anything?? Of course not! But I do think there are many folks who have taken that path and have done quite well for themselves. Enough said.......................I agree. I don't think even if you are based in London/NY, you'll always find a real quant job with only a MFE. If you get a relevant one, then you can work your way up. It might happen, it might not. Some people from the programs mentioned by TJ do get into the best jobs, but not all of them. Quite a few end up at consultancies, IT firms, etc. And then it becomes very tough to go back to a bank unless all the boxes are checked against the job requirements. PhD doesn't guarantee anything, but it can make work satisfying.

bearish
Posts: 5615
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: riskguruQuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinterif you go and avail this opportunity you will find hard to disassociate yourself from these academic disciplines and teaching. I would still say you have the education you have the experience you should find a job.Your willingness to make these broad sweeping statements that seem to have (I think) very little basis in fact is quite astonishing! So let me give you some datapoints:Peter Carr, currently Global Head of Market Modelling, Morgan Stanley, PhD Finance from UCLALouis Scott: co-head of quant analytics at UBS till early this year, PhD Econ from Virginia and Finance faculty for a while (Illinois/Georgia)Lars Nielsen: Ran model review at Morgan Stanley for quite a while, PhD in Econ from Harvard. Finance faculty for a while (INSEAD/Columbia)Many of the people that I worked with who were a part of model review were PhDs either in finance or a related discipline from a school with a strong collaboration with the finance department. They are all still active and doing quite well for themselves. NONE of them had an MFE only. Perhaps the folks with MFE were sitting as part of Product Control??Does this mean doing a PhD in Finance gurantees anything?? Of course not! But I do think there are many folks who have taken that path and have done quite well for themselves. Enough said.......................If you want more examples of finance PhDs successfully running large quant groups, you could throw in Marco Naldi (Barcap), Leif Andersen (B of A), L. Sankarasubramanian (Citi), and Eduardo Canabarro (Morgan Stanley).

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

as I said you should concentrate on original research. if you do want to do a phd in finance you should have a research topic relevant to where you want to work.

access1nash
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteras I said you should concentrate on original research. if you do want to do a phd in finance you should have a research topic relevant to where you want to work.As i said (in an earlier post), please.....

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

please don't misinterpret. the aim is to help you get a quantitative job whether now while you are doing a part-time phd in finance or later. if you are getting offended you will lose out on the useful advice there is to offer by the posters here. if you are firm on what you want to do then better go ahead with it. the only concern was you are broke and unemployed and as fellow unemployed I was feeling your worries.

access1nash
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinterplease don't misinterpret. the aim is to help you get a quantitative job whether now while you are doing a part-time phd in finance or later. if you are getting offended you will lose out on the useful advice there is to offer by the posters here. if you are firm on what you want to do then better go ahead with it. the only concern was you are broke and unemployed and as fellow unemployed I was feeling your worries.lol...who told you i was broke? you just keep assuming things like you know it all....it's irritating..... please keep the thread for what it was intended to be....i have got what i needed from here. thank you.
Last edited by access1nash on June 4th, 2014, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

if you mayQUOTEI'm currently at a part-time PhD program and I'm really enjoying it, but I may not be able to sustain anymore since I quit my last job and suddenly there are no relevant jobs in my country.I don't know how it'll be while actually living in poverty.UNQUOTE

access1nash
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinterif you mayQUOTEI'm currently at a part-time PhD program and I'm really enjoying it, but I may not be able to sustain anymore since I quit my last job and suddenly there are no relevant jobs in my country.I don't know how it'll be while actually living in poverty.UNQUOTEyou've combined two statements from two different posts to create a meaning what you want to believe. that last sentence was about the experience of being in a PhD program and living on a stipend. you're dumb and it's just you who doesn't know it. Anyway, I don't want to put sense into some joker know-it-all. keep dreaming and I'm sure Lloyd Blankfein himself will come begging to you to join them as a trader.

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

you have a good sense of humor. I hope you realize how you kept changing your statements. if you can't sustain without a job what does it mean. and phd programs are not meant for students to live in poverty. there are healthy stipends these days.

access1nash
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

### Options after a PhD

QuoteOriginally posted by: Sprinteryou have a good sense of humor. I hope you realize how you kept changing your statements. if you can't sustain without a job what does it mean. and phd programs are not meant for students to live in poverty. there are healthy stipends these days.ok, great. You know everything. Are you Sherlock by any chance? Just wondering .......(Anyway, that was sarcasm. Don't bother to answer)

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

and you will get into a model validation quantitative analysis role with a phd in finance having done an mfe insisting on a phd in finance rather than what people here are telling you. I wonder if you have the temperament to succeed if you get offended and irritated so soon and think those who are trying to help dumb. do you think anyone can ever be dumb. no one is ever dumb its just that you have more knowledge in some area than the other. you have gotten educated you are reasonably intelligent and this is all required to have a successful career.

Sprinter
Posts: 103
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 11:05 am

### Options after a PhD

so you have to tell us you are being sarcastic. you should learn get exposure develop your personality before you can embark on a career you are looking for.
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