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CarbonNanohoop
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Posts: 5
Joined: November 5th, 2014, 4:47 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 5th, 2014, 5:27 pm

So I have been contacted by around TEN recruiters from Selby Jennings during the past months and all of them claimed to have one or two "good positions" on hand that were suitable for me. Some of them asked for the names of the firms I interviewed with, while others didn't. The question is, NONE of them ever called back. I used to be very excited when the first three or four SJ recruiters reached out to me, but then later on when I received calls from any recruiters claiming to work for SJ, I would say to myself like "Meh, you guys again." It is getting annoying because they are responsible for a very large share of job postings on the web, and every time after I apply for several positions online I will definitely receive one call from a SJ recruiter the next day. I have asked around in some quant network and found out that many people have had similar experience with SJ. Well, if it only happens two or three times, I can understand, but what's up with TEN times?I am extremely curious what do they do this for. Could someone please fill me in?
 
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neuroguy
Posts: 408
Joined: February 22nd, 2011, 4:07 pm

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 6th, 2014, 6:30 am

They are gathering information and playing a numbers game. Not so very different from certain trading strategies. (You are the stock).
 
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ashkar
Posts: 274
Joined: October 17th, 2011, 9:25 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 6th, 2014, 8:42 am

They bombard job sites with nice sounding job adverts to catch newbees. All of those postings are fake.
 
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DevonFangs
Posts: 3004
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 1:49 pm

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 6th, 2014, 9:15 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ashkarThey bombard job sites with nice sounding job adverts to catch newbees. All of those postings are fake.+1Also, this time of the year the job market is liquid and recruitment agencies are very active. I also suspect they hire their juniors in these months, and they try to build their networks. I think the other day I was friended on linkedin by three different fresh starters from the same agency within two hours.
 
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cenperro
Posts: 31
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 1:33 pm

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 6th, 2014, 2:28 pm

ha,ha..those 3 guys have been 'friending' everyone I know...I guess they are exactly the same guys :-)
 
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CarbonNanohoop
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Posts: 5
Joined: November 5th, 2014, 4:47 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 6th, 2014, 7:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: ashkarThey bombard job sites with nice sounding job adverts to catch newbees. All of those postings are fake.+1Also, this time of the year the job market is liquid and recruitment agencies are very active. I also suspect they hire their juniors in these months, and they try to build their networks. I think the other day I was friended on linkedin by three different fresh starters from the same agency within two hours.Thanks for the insights. Can't say I like it, but guess I have to be understanding... It's how they make a living, isn't it...
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 11684
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 16th, 2014, 9:29 am

"Who have you been interviewing with ?" may be a question, but is also a lie.An agent needs to know if you've been put forward to a specific client, in order not to create clashes that create hassle for you as well as them.The only reason to ask in general who you've seen is to get sales leads and since some reading this are new tothe game let me share that since you are already interviewing, the only shot they have is to send someone else to compete with you.That has two midly obvious effects, first, they may pick that one instead of you and/or they will believe there is greater supply of that skill set and lower their price.The less obvious effects are that the interivew process may take longer and since they will come to believe the market favours them more and so be more relaxed about the possibilty that you give up waiting.Also it is not unknown for recruiters to be honest...If asked "how did you find out about this ?" the agent may say "XX told me" and you will be known as the source of irritating sales calls and seen as a bit naive which is not good.
 
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ElysianEagle
Posts: 93
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 7:25 pm

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 21st, 2014, 5:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnor"Who have you been interviewing with ?" may be a question, but is also a lie.An agent needs to know if you've been put forward to a specific client, in order not to create clashes that create hassle for you as well as them.The only reason to ask in general who you've seen is to get sales leads and since some reading this are new tothe game let me share that since you are already interviewing, the only shot they have is to send someone else to compete with you.That has two midly obvious effects, first, they may pick that one instead of you and/or they will believe there is greater supply of that skill set and lower their price.The less obvious effects are that the interivew process may take longer and since they will come to believe the market favours them more and so be more relaxed about the possibilty that you give up waiting.Also it is not unknown for recruiters to be honest...If asked "how did you find out about this ?" the agent may say "XX told me" and you will be known as the source of irritating sales calls and seen as a bit naive which is not good.I've long suspected the above to be the case but it's good to have DC confirm my suspicions. However, the question remains: how does one answer the question, "Have you been interviewing somewhere else?"? The one time I said "Oh nowhere else really" the recruiter ended up submitting me to the same place then got really mad when she found out I had already been submitted there by someone else, lol. Then again, I don't like revealing this kind of information precisely because they might send in other candidates for the same role...
 
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CarbonNanohoop
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: November 5th, 2014, 4:47 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 21st, 2014, 6:14 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnor"Who have you been interviewing with ?" may be a question, but is also a lie.An agent needs to know if you've been put forward to a specific client, in order not to create clashes that create hassle for you as well as them.The only reason to ask in general who you've seen is to get sales leads and since some reading this are new tothe game let me share that since you are already interviewing, the only shot they have is to send someone else to compete with you.That has two midly obvious effects, first, they may pick that one instead of you and/or they will believe there is greater supply of that skill set and lower their price.The less obvious effects are that the interivew process may take longer and since they will come to believe the market favours them more and so be more relaxed about the possibilty that you give up waiting.Also it is not unknown for recruiters to be honest...If asked "how did you find out about this ?" the agent may say "XX told me" and you will be known as the source of irritating sales calls and seen as a bit naive which is not good.Thanks for your answer, Dominic. That really makes sense. Actually, one of my friends had some related experience. Being a newbie as well, he accidentally revealed the position (for which he had been a very competent applicant and finished the final round already) and the name of the hiring manager to a Selby Jennings recruiter. Days later he heard that some other applicant with very good working experience suddenly showed up for the interview. He could not tell for sure whether this recruiter was behind this, but I guess there's extremely high probability as this was a not publicly announced position. Of course, the recruiter never actually contacted my friend for the "one or two good positions on hand" he claimed (as always huh). I guess his initial intention was not to introduce to any good positions anyways, he just wanted to know where else he could place his best "stocks", as neuroguy pointed out.So after seeing all the valuable responses you guys gave me, I really want to warn my friends and anyone who is viewing this thread, beware of the fake postings and the recruiters who try to pry into your "interview experience". I guess telling them the name of the companies you interviewed with is fine at most, but never reveal the name of the hiring managers, not even the positions you interviewed for if possible.By the way, me and some of my friends actually have the names and contact info of some of these SJ recruiters. I really don't want to reveal them here, because no matter how we hate these guys, I understand that this is a cruel world and this is how they make a living, and we have to learn how to live with all these cruelty too. But wtf...
Last edited by CarbonNanohoop on November 20th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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QuantOption
Posts: 269
Joined: February 8th, 2003, 9:00 pm

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 21st, 2014, 8:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ElysianEagleQuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnor"Who have you been interviewing with ?" may be a question, but is also a lie.An agent needs to know if you've been put forward to a specific client, in order not to create clashes that create hassle for you as well as them.The only reason to ask in general who you've seen is to get sales leads and since some reading this are new tothe game let me share that since you are already interviewing, the only shot they have is to send someone else to compete with you.That has two midly obvious effects, first, they may pick that one instead of you and/or they will believe there is greater supply of that skill set and lower their price.The less obvious effects are that the interivew process may take longer and since they will come to believe the market favours them more and so be more relaxed about the possibilty that you give up waiting.Also it is not unknown for recruiters to be honest...If asked "how did you find out about this ?" the agent may say "XX told me" and you will be known as the source of irritating sales calls and seen as a bit naive which is not good.I've long suspected the above to be the case but it's good to have DC confirm my suspicions. However, the question remains: how does one answer the question, "Have you been interviewing somewhere else?"? The one time I said "Oh nowhere else really" the recruiter ended up submitting me to the same place then got really mad when she found out I had already been submitted there by someone else, lol. Then again, I don't like revealing this kind of information precisely because they might send in other candidates for the same role...There's no need to reveal where you interviewed (and you should not, it's not in your interest). The headhunter should NEVER submit your resume to anywhere without your prior approval. This should be obvious, but it doesn't hurt to remind them that. So at the point they suggest to submit your resume to the place where you already interviewed, you can come up with whatever reason you don't want your resume to be submitted there (i don't like the company/ i have a friend there who doesn't recommend, blah blah).
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 11684
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 29th, 2014, 8:11 pm

It's not for me to tell you what to do with any names you have about HHs behaving badly.What I will say is that I work off the Private Eye principle, basically I ask myself, "is this something I'd like people to know I did ?"This isn't just an ethical principle...In my experience people who run firms of any size really don't like dishonesty in their staff, because if an employee is dishonest, the greatest opportunity for doing something bad (however you define "bad) is not to candidates or clients, rarely even to competitors, but the firm they work for. > 9/10 of all criminal cases of employee dishonesty have the employer as the victim and that is before we price up the cost of bad behaviour, indeed the smaller number of "external" dishonesty cost more because of reputation damage.I compete with SJ, so I won't badmouth them, indeed if the top guys at SJ saw what you say is happening, not only would they emit the standard corporate "we expect a high standard of conduct and are taking this seriously", they would be spitting blood.
 
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CarbonNanohoop
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: November 5th, 2014, 4:47 am

What's up with Selby Jennings???

November 29th, 2014, 9:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DominicConnorIt's not for me to tell you what to do with any names you have about HHs behaving badly.What I will say is that I work off the Private Eye principle, basically I ask myself, "is this something I'd like people to know I did ?"This isn't just an ethical principle...In my experience people who run firms of any size really don't like dishonesty in their staff, because if an employee is dishonest, the greatest opportunity for doing something bad (however you define "bad) is not to candidates or clients, rarely even to competitors, but the firm they work for. > 9/10 of all criminal cases of employee dishonesty have the employer as the victim and that is before we price up the cost of bad behaviour, indeed the smaller number of "external" dishonesty cost more because of reputation damage.I compete with SJ, so I won't badmouth them, indeed if the top guys at SJ saw what you say is happening, not only would they emit the standard corporate "we expect a high standard of conduct and are taking this seriously", they would be spitting blood.Yes, I understand your point and totally agree with that. I am not at the position to judge whether some firm or employee is dishonest or not either, but my experience with SJ is really weird and unless some "top guys" see my post and explain to me why this happened, I will have to warn all quant friends in my circle about my experience.
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