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PolarCatastrophe
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 17th, 2014, 7:06 pm

As with most people making their first post, I'm looking into becoming a quant. I'll keep this post as short as possible.1. I hold a M.S. in Physics from a top 10 public school. I was on track (and passed all the qualifying exams) for a PhD.2. I decided to stop my pursuit for a PhD after getting married.3. At the time of this decision my original intent was to return to school in the near future for MFE.4. I was suggested by others to look into actuarial positions.5. For those familiar, I passed all 5 preliminary actuarial exams in the past year and was able to secure a position 7-8 months ago.6. Unfortunately, I don't find the work I do on the job to be reminiscent of the exam progress. I'm afraid if I stay in the actuarial field I will become stagnant due to not being challenged enough.With that being said, I'd like to start applying for jobs in the field. Is this a typical background for someone looking to become a quant? What steps would you suggest I take in improving my odds? Are there other jobs I could apply to that would get my foot in the door?-Riley
 
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neuroguy
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 18th, 2014, 5:52 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: PolarCatastropheAs with most people making their first post, I'm looking into becoming a quant. I'll keep this post as short as possible.1. I hold a M.S. in Physics from a top 10 public school. I was on track (and passed all the qualifying exams) for a PhD.2. I decided to stop my pursuit for a PhD after getting married.3. At the time of this decision my original intent was to return to school in the near future for MFE.4. I was suggested by others to look into actuarial positions.5. For those familiar, I passed all 5 preliminary actuarial exams in the past year and was able to secure a position 7-8 months ago.6. Unfortunately, I don't find the work I do on the job to be reminiscent of the exam progress. I'm afraid if I stay in the actuarial field I will become stagnant due to not being challenged enough.With that being said, I'd like to start applying for jobs in the field. Is this a typical background for someone looking to become a quant? What steps would you suggest I take in improving my odds? Are there other jobs I could apply to that would get my foot in the door?-RileyDepends what you mean by 'quant'.You background looks compatible with statistical analysis of instruments and groups of instruments. You might therefore be looking at the buyside as the best place. Not having a PhD but being technical, your main peril is getting stuck in the 'gilded IT' trap. (unless you are useless with computers, in which case being a quant is going to be next to impossible anyway.)To avoid this, and given the mixed influences of your background, your best bet might be look at getting into a smaller buyside shop where you will have much more opportunity to learn as you go along and where, if you are good, you will be given responsibility.
 
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bearish
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 18th, 2014, 10:47 am

For the "foot in the door" angle, you may want to target asset management operations affiliated with insurance companies, since these are likely to have some people in their management ranks with actuarial background.
 
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PolarCatastrophe
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 18th, 2014, 1:58 pm

Thanks for the feedback thus far. Let me outline a few more things:1. I currently live in Texas and although I have no restrictions geographically (I could move anywhere without a problem), I believe it will be easier to get interviews at places nearby. I'm well aware that many of the jobs will be in Chicago/New York. How big is the Houston market in comparison? Anything in Dallas, Austin, etc? At the few places I've found in Houston (Quantlab for example) it appears that there are lower requirements for entry (over New York/Chicago jobs) that might make it easier to find my starting path.2. Through my reading over the past few months I've gained a partial liking to energy trading. With this being said is there any additional advice for pursuing this specific route?3. I "feel" I have a substantial programming and technical background due to my degree / self interests. However I realize this is a fairly subjective statement and would be open to any resources that might give me an idea of where the benchmark lies in most of these positions.4. I agree that the asset management would be a decent starting route if I can't find employment elsewhere. There are also investment actuaries (few) which seem to have more in common with quantitative roles. I'll start to look into these options.5. What are some examples of a "small" shop?Thanks again,-Riley
 
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neuroguy
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 19th, 2014, 8:25 am

3. Normally people who think they are good at programming have perhaps a decent knowledge of the syntax of the code. In my experience however people who actually are good programmers are almost no longer aware of syntax, by which I mean they think in terms of algorithms, data structures and patterns. This is no different from a great writer becoming unaware of spelling and grammattical constructs, unless they deliberately play on them (which can also happen in programming). Most novice programmers essentially equate being a 'great' or 'good' programmer with being able to spell and avoid double negatives. It does not quite fly. However, once you are fluent with the concepts and math, programming is far less about syntax than it is about engineering. Normally, to be useful in the commercial financial context you have to get to this point, or at least have sufficient awareness of this such that you create code that is easy for other people to treat in this way without rewriting it completely. You can get an idea by looking at the programming areas of this site. Now, many people on there are really expert, so it is not a benchmark as such, but you will get the idea.4. It is a great route if you can get a proper quant role. Investment actuary could be a route but is marginally less favourable, since especially given your background, once you start down that route you will find it harder to get into front line investment (which is the most interesting bit by far). People normally say that you should shoot for starting out by doing the thing that you actually want to do. Generally its pretty good advice.5. Feel free to PM me.
Last edited by neuroguy on November 18th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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BramJ
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 19th, 2014, 2:12 pm

If you're looking to go the energy trading route, that is a crowded market with (I think) the potential of a big shakeout occurring if we see energy prices dropping further (but I could easily be wrong; I trade energy derivatives myself for a bank, but I could just be overly pessimistic there about the market in general). I would recommend applying for a traineeship at a shop that trades physically; more chance of getting in right out of university there and you'll gain a perspective that later on will be valued by banks as well. At the same time that's less likely to be "quant" work though, so if you're serious about wanting to do that (rather than saying you want be a quant when you really just want to be a trader and think that's the way to get in), it might not be for you.
Last edited by BramJ on November 18th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PolarCatastrophe
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 19th, 2014, 2:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: BramJIf you're looking to go the energy trading route, that is a crowded market with (I think) the potential of a big shakeout occurring if we see energy prices dropping further (but I could easily be wrong; I trade energy derivatives myself for a bank, but I could just be overly pessimistic there about the market in general). I would recommend applying for a traineeship at a shop that trades physically; more chance of getting in right out of university there and you'll gain a perspective that later on will be valued by banks as well. At the same time that's less likely to be "quant" work though, so if you're serious about wanting to do that (rather than saying you want be a quant when you really just want to be a trader and think that's the way to get in), it might not be for you.I've been keeping an eye on the energy market and I've noticed many of the things you're saying but it still holds my interest by a small amount over some of the other markets (not a huge preference really).Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the lingo, but I'm most concerned with finding a job that is more mentally challenging and fulfilling rather than monetary pleasure. I would say I'm looking somewhere on the line between a quantitative trader as you suggested and a quantitative developer. However, I will agree that the trading route is more appealing.Another thing to mention is that I've been out of school for a year and a half. If a traineeship is anything like an internship it would be hard to snag one of those at this time, no?-Riley
Last edited by PolarCatastrophe on November 18th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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dfeynman
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Physics to Actuary to Quant?

November 19th, 2014, 8:38 pm

Hi, welcome to the forums.I got my MSc in physics from a US school, passed all the quals like you, started my PhD and then, for a very good reason, I left it, and left US as a direct consequence. I got back to a small EU country and started looking for actuarial or quant positions.Luckily enough I found a quant position and I work mostly in developing algos and systems integration (cross platform) and less in analysis. How good you are in programming depends on many factors. For example can you program a multi threading app? It's not about 'if RSI crosses MACD then Buy'. And quant dev is different from general programming. Maybe an answer would be 'I am as good as the requirements I have to cover'. Moreover if you want to do quant analysis, do you think that you have the skills required? Ask yourself. It is certainly more rewarding than dev.I am not sure if after 18 months my experience is sufficient enough to look for other quant roles that pay more. I am sure that the fund I work now needs me but I don't know if other funds need my experience. What happens if the fund shuts down due to bad returns for example? It may be Analysts' fault and not mine but I will have to look elsewhere. So if you find what you're looking for NOW, you won't be sure about the future. My advice would be for you to try to become invaluable in ANY position, ok, not in something you really hate, but you understand what I'm saying.Some guys here are really helpful and knowledgeable, you will understand in time :-) Check older posts.