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SanFranCA2002
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Posts: 649
Joined: October 3rd, 2002, 5:05 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 19th, 2003, 5:43 pm

I interviewed five candidates for a starter job here over the last week. All of them listed "C/C++" (except for one that just said "C++") on their resumes. When asked the direct question what is the difference between C and C++, one and only one came up with a reasonable answer. The other answers were something like "well, they are mostly the same, about like 80 percent the same but C++ has some additional things". I asked several what "cout" means. There were no answers for this. When pressed, one told me that he only used C++ for one project and output everything to the printer directly so did not know about such things. Two also listed SAS in their software skills. Neither could tell me what "PROC" meant.
 
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elan
Posts: 351
Joined: April 30th, 2003, 3:47 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 19th, 2003, 6:02 pm

Well, so you threw out the resumes and continued interviewing. In the future, remember that you can conduct a phone interview (before inviting the candidate for a face to face interview) in order to verify the candidate's integrity.
 
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tbonds
Posts: 246
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Resume misrepresentation

September 19th, 2003, 6:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: SanFranCA2002I interviewed five candidates for a starter job here over the last week. All of them listed "C/C++" (except for one that just said "C++") on their resumes. When asked the direct question what is the difference between C and C++, one and only one came up with a reasonable answer. The other answers were something like "well, they are mostly the same, about like 80 percent the same but C++ has some additional things". I asked several what "cout" means. There were no answers for this. When pressed, one told me that he only used C++ for one project and output everything to the printer directly so did not know about such things. Two also listed SAS in their software skills. Neither could tell me what "PROC" meant.Yes, it seems that recent grads put C++ down on their resumes (at least the ones from NYU) simply because they programmed the Black-Scholes model in their Derivatives 101 course. I get similar lame responses when asking if they ever programmed anything substantial in VBA for Excel or Access. I feel your frustration.
 
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chiral3
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 20th, 2003, 2:21 am

I think that you are going to get alot of c/c++ by default. I actually have that on my resume, but have always used c++.A real good sas question to fool interviews is to ask how to use proc merge. You haveproc sort new1by blah;run;proc sort new2;by blah;run;data new3merge new1 new2;by blah;run;For some reason people always thinks merge is a proc
 
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woo953
Posts: 3
Joined: August 14th, 2003, 1:22 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 20th, 2003, 2:36 pm

Hi SanFranCA2002,Do u know any free online tutorial for SAS? I was following the tutorial from SAS program, but it wasn't that helpful._James
 
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ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 20th, 2003, 3:20 pm

Last edited by ppauper on November 14th, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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robertral
Posts: 651
Joined: March 6th, 2003, 7:12 am

Resume misrepresentation

September 20th, 2003, 5:37 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: woo953Hi SanFranCA2002,Do u know any free online tutorial for SAS? I need a tutorial quick as well -- I've got a job interview next week and put "expert SAS programmer" on my resume.(JOKE) SanFran -- I've heard of some banks requiring programming candidates to pass a C+ test. Maybe that's your filter.Yeah I had a C++ test in an interview at an IB. It was code for a monte carlo simulation and they asked me what derivative it priced. It's a good way to test both C/C++ and an understanding of derivatives and their coding.
Last edited by robertral on September 19th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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virus
Posts: 119
Joined: September 5th, 2003, 9:03 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 21st, 2003, 11:34 am

I have been using SAS extensively and feel confident enough to answer questions such as those posed by Chiral3 and others.....but have never worked with C or C++......is it a must to learn such a programming language to survive in this industry or would my SAS skills keep me in good stead.....If so then would somebody know of some good books (not too expensive nor too time consuming) to learn C/C++......So far SAS has fit the bill wonderfully for the Risk Analytics that i do....but then, who doesn't want to be prepared or a step ahead.
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 11684
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 9:15 am

Well, it is actually a slightly deep question for a new graduate to ask the difference between C & C++.I am not aware of any university that does C++ to any useful extent, and would only look for programming skills in a CompSci graduate, and even then would focus on conceptual stuff not detailed language definitions. We're doing a project with Imperial in London, and I was depressed to hear undergrads use Pascal, and even places where fuckwits haven't taken over the computer lab have less than 10% of the course being programming. ppauper's point about comprehending code is valid, as long it is seen as necessary but not sufficient. Programming is an imperative craft.A programmer does things to a computer, using cunning, guile, trickery, bloody mindedness and a code editor, so a good test would include writing code and debugging as well.What one is trying to determine is the candidate's "internal model" of what he thinks C++ is. I don't care if he knows about templated exceptions as much as I care that when he needs to do it, he can grab Stroustrup and understand it without help from a grown up. There is a critical mass of comprehension that is required to be useful, and I'd be impressed by any undergrad who had it.As it happens, I almost never use SanFranCA2002's cout. Most of my development has been GUI & DLL, so I know some mildly arcane stuff about sockets and streams, but if an interviewer probed hard there my holes would quickly expose me as a fool.
 
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spacemonkey
Posts: 443
Joined: August 14th, 2002, 3:17 am

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 1:24 pm

Surely if you can really program a computer, then it doesn't really matter what the language is. Mostly the differences are just the keywords, sometimes you have to learn new concepts such as the switch from c to c++ but nothing really difficult. So why is there such a big emphasis on specific langauges?
 
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kr
Posts: 1885
Joined: September 27th, 2002, 1:19 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 1:31 pm

i'm gonna put 'ICE9 expert' on my resume this afternoon
 
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RowdyRoddyPiper
Posts: 529
Joined: November 5th, 2001, 7:25 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 2:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: SanFranCA2002I interviewed five candidates for a starter job here over the last week. All of them listed "C/C++" (except for one that just said "C++") on their resumes. When asked the direct question what is the difference between C and C++, one and only one came up with a reasonable answer. The other answers were something like "well, they are mostly the same, about like 80 percent the same but C++ has some additional things". I asked several what "cout" means. There were no answers for this. When pressed, one told me that he only used C++ for one project and output everything to the printer directly so did not know about such things. Two also listed SAS in their software skills. Neither could tell me what "PROC" meant.Did you specifically ask for C/C++ and SAS?? There are a lot of people out there asking for a laundry list of "Crucial Skillz" that a qualified candidate must have. The candidate must posess an ability to program in three (3) high level languages, have a solid grasp of corporate finance and two (2) accounting standards and be accurate up to 25m with a pistol while moving. If you ask for it people will put on anything (especially software) that you ask for because they assume it is important to you, even if their experience consists of looking up the term in their funk and wagnall.
 
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piranha
Posts: 124
Joined: October 27th, 2002, 4:57 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 6:30 pm

I have "basic knowledge of C++" on my resume which means I took one undergraduate introductory class and haven't used it since. MATLAB has spoiled me. Oh well.
 
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N
Posts: 2808
Joined: May 9th, 2003, 8:26 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 6:59 pm

I still don't understand why one would expect or want quants or jr quants to be programmers. When I need C++ programmers, I hire programmers. I'd expectto see a ratio of 3-4 real programmers per quant.
 
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chiral3
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

Resume misrepresentation

September 22nd, 2003, 7:19 pm

I find that the only programming that I am good at is the programming that I am doing now. I gave experience with java and fortran90, although I have forgotten most of it. If I had to re-learn, it wouldn't take much. I use more c and sas now and, since I left my last job in may, my vb has been going to crap.This is the difference - I am not a programmer. I can program, but if you have a big project you don't want me. I think 60% of the time and code 40%. Ya still have to keep it on the resume, though.
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