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Tadragh1
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 18th, 2007, 5:50 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: jfuquaPoland seemed to have got ahead of the curve on reform before most of the others and---I could be wrong---have a larger population.That is correct - 38 million people. Of that, there is approximately 0.5-1 million of us in London
 
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eiriamjh
Posts: 462
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 18th, 2007, 9:34 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: unkpathit's very funny you mention that, because I have heard a lot more exaggerated statements than this one. for example one industry participant mentioned to me that as much as 70% percent of quants are being supplied by el karoui's dea and someone else, also a market participant, stated that quants are essentiallysupplied from french ecoles. much as I am french myself and from an ecole, I must say that this small talk always makes me feel embarrassed about my nation. it is certainly the case that a couple of newspaper articles published in WSJ and elsewhere lastyear have worsened the situation, but even without it, there is this pathetic inferiority complex lurking in mostfrench souls that brings the wrong feelings of superiority to light again and again.... so sad.I agree with unkpath: the french are experts at co-optation, nepotism and corporatismmy 2 cents: never let a french person run your diversity programjoke aside, the french education system does produce excellent master's, in particular through its grandes ecoles, but that's often at the cost of a highly competitive mindset akin to "chauvinism", whence the faults mentioned above - this is why French banks have no hope to become globale.
 
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niki5
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 18th, 2007, 12:24 pm

Which country has issued the most structured products? I know that is not on the topic, but will be very interesting if someone can provide a brief statistic. I think the Germans and their certificates are number one( not as volume, but as diversity ).
 
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eiriamjh
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 18th, 2007, 12:35 pm

yes Germany would rank quite high, although I would think the Italian market to be bigger in volume and more diversified in structuresBNP runs an annual survey which gives some useful insightse.
 
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unkpath
Posts: 289
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 19th, 2007, 1:51 am

QuoteI agree with unkpath: the french are experts at co-optation, nepotism and corporatismmy 2 cents: never let a french person run your diversity programjoke aside, the french education system does produce excellent master's, in particular through its grandes ecoles, but that's often at the cost of a highly competitive mindset akin to "chauvinism", whence the faults mentioned above - this is why French banks have no hope to become globale.what really blows my mind is the utter lack of self-criticism of most french people I have come across, it is like a brainwash that starts at the age of 3 there. I have had countless discussions with people on this forum, all making the same point how great polytechnique is, the unbelievable being that most of these were not even graduates from that school. unfortunately very predictable and most and foremost all of this is at the cost of the majority of french people who are not in the right corporation.
 
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quantwanabe
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 19th, 2007, 5:44 am

Well I guess they dont have a lot of schools like harvard, mit, stanford, berkley, caltech......Does Polytechnique offers an MS in financial engineering
 
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jfuqua
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 19th, 2007, 2:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CrazyCDOfrom what I currently see in my grad school (directly relevant to quant stuff) most of the wannabe hardcore-quant guys are chinese...These people are really hard working...they must be studying 14-16 hours a day and do nothing else; I wish I were so concentrated as they are. I feel intimidated if I have to compete with them for hardcore quant positions because no other non-chinese grad student (including myself) feels like studying so hard...But they definitely lack communication skills for some positions that require immediate interaction with traders or clients. Maybe they even lack the skill that trading itself requires; this is because I think are not "cocky" enough and I doubt whether they have the capability (is it called emotional intelligence???) to understand the behavior of other market participants, which is essential in identifying the market direction.=================================== Small study. This is the breakdown of speakers and/or authors at a recent conference on Volatility and High Frequency Data: African 1 Algerian 1 Algerian 2 American 7 British 3 Canadian 4 Chinese 13 Danish 7 French 4 German 1 Italian 5 Mexican 1 Norwegian 1 Russian 4 Swiss 1======================= I think the 14-16* hours a day is high but I wonder about the effect US or British life has on second and possibly even first generations. I.e. if someone comes from China, India, SE Asia or even Russia or the Eastern Block, does US/British [or even French or German, other?] life style and 'comforts' tend to make their children more like native born Americans/British/etc.---enjoying TV, movies, etc. more than studies so that by second or third generation they have reverted to the mean ? There are some stories that even first generations in the US and even India who do well, start to enjoy the 'good life' and loose that 'hunger?' Several highly placed Silicon Valley first generation executives lament that their children want to become doctors, lawyers, investment bankers rather than go into engineering or other sciences.* Though here [http://media.www.chibus.com/media/stora ... 4384.shtml] is one who must put in 36 hour days since "... I read tens of thousands of [finance] papers and other books that summer."================================================== Julian Simons comments on the work force at Renaissance in the following [I'll post it if the link goes away]: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070519/ap_ ... EmhePMWM0F
Last edited by jfuqua on May 18th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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unkpath
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 20th, 2007, 12:44 am

Quote I think the 14-16* hours a day is high but I wonder about the effect US or British life has on second and possibly even first generations. I.e. if someone comes from China, India, SE Asia or even Russia or the Eastern Block, does US/British [or even French or German, other?] life style and 'comforts' tend to make their children more like native born Americans/British/etc.---enjoying TV, movies, etc. more than studies so that by second or third generation they have reverted to the mean ? There are some stories that even first generations in the US and even India who do well, start to enjoy the 'good life' and loose that 'hunger?' Several highly placed Silicon Valley first generation executives lament that their children want to become doctors, lawyers, investment bankers rather than go into engineering or other sciences.what kind of stereotypical nonsense are you talking again man... are you saying that those who watch TV don't like to study science and engineering? I recommend you have a look first in the US, then abroad and then start talkinghopefully smarter. first of all not all science and engineering students in the US are chinese, etc... there are americans too in case you had not noticed. same for the faculty - look at the 2006 nobel prizes for instance. then, it is not like you are from an emerging country, you immigrate, you don't buy a TV for your kids and force them to learn math and feed them with bread and water. duh. there are many countries that will always have educational systems and put value on science and technology. the US happens to be one of them. In a country like France for instance, things go further. There you have a sizable community of teachers with strong labor unions and it is still considered a decent job to be a teacher and maths teachers there even those teaching in high schools have a proper pure mathematics education. I don't see that going away there and people do have TVs there. I think that you should see it this way. It is much much harder to have a rewarding career in a technical subject, becauseit is so much harder to stick out of the crowd. Anyone who has spent less than 6 months in an investment bank or even academia will have realized how much sense it makes to go business and not stick it out in a lambda IT job or some quant job cooking up the same old 1970s models again and again. It takes courage to stick it out in a technical function. It is not about good life, it's about success. duh.
 
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KackToodles
Posts: 4100
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 20th, 2007, 5:57 am

Quote Several highly placed Silicon Valley first generation executives lament that their children want to become doctors, lawyers, investment bankers rather than go into engineering or other sciences. Being a doctor, lawyer, or investment banker is easy and lazy?! Hah, these are the 3 most competitive career paths around. To get into a top med or law school, you need straight A's in undergrad, including very competitive chem and writing courses. Most engineers have B+ undegrad averages and lower SATs than pre-meds and pre-laws, pal. And the top MBA programs, like Harvard and Stanford, admit less than 1 of 20 applicants. Compare that to almost open admission in masters engineering programs, where schools are so desperate to find students, they let them in even if they can barely speak english. You got things all backwards; American students are very competitive AND they are smart enough to seek out the better paying careers, which are in law, medicine, and business.
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jfuqua
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1/3 quants are french ?

May 20th, 2007, 5:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuote Several highly placed Silicon Valley first generation executives lament that their children want to become doctors, lawyers, investment bankers rather than go into engineering or other sciences. Being a doctor, lawyer, or investment banker is easy and lazy?! Hah, these are the 3 most competitive career paths around. To get into a top med or law school, you need straight A's in undergrad, including very competitive chem and writing courses. Most engineers have B+ undegrad averages and lower SATs than pre-meds and pre-laws, pal. And the top MBA programs, like Harvard and Stanford, admit less than 1 of 20 applicants. Compare that to almost open admission in masters engineering programs, where schools are so desperate to find students, they let them in even if they can barely speak english. You got things all backwards; American students are very competitive AND they are smart enough to seek out the better paying careers, which are in law, medicine, and business.=============== I did not say those were easier. That was my point that these jobs pay more on average that engineering or science and the students ARE bright and thus see the advantage of law, business or medicine given the number of jobs in those fields, job security and funding of sciences---e.g. government funding cuts, labs shut or reduced, etc..
Last edited by jfuqua on May 20th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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NorthernJohn
Posts: 632
Joined: June 2nd, 2003, 9:07 am

1/3 quants are french ?

May 20th, 2007, 7:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: pb273I have been interviewing many candidates for quite a few quant roles (for New York) for the last 6 months, and given what I get, I can tell you that out of every 20 guys, 12 are Chinese, 4 are Indians, 2 are Russians/East Europeans and only 1 is French and the remaining 1 is rest of world incl Brits & Americans.That is very different to my experience. In my last few banks, the teams have been rather French heavy. The curent team is 75% French, actually, and this is not a European bank.They are definitely overrepresened, but this is not a huge surprise. In England, the brightest people tend to do science degrees. In France, they tend to be more likely to do a financial course. As quans, in general, need to be both bright and tutored in the subject, this gives them an edge.
 
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PlasticSaber
Posts: 414
Joined: April 28th, 2007, 8:17 am

1/3 quants are french ?

May 20th, 2007, 9:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCLess dramatic is Chinese, but it's not trivial, ditto Indians. But indians enjoy the advantage of reliable brand value in their university qualificationsgermans are indeed relatively rare, and that is not "in spite" of german strengths in science and engineering but @because@ since they have good options without the risk and StressOf career change.I have no explanation for the very small nmber of japaneseI guess the Japanese case is easy to explain. In terms of cultural and language difference and barrier, they are on par of the Chinese. But, similar to the Germans, science and engineering PhDs still have decent options back home. It is pretty rational for many of them to go back (or don't come out at the first place). For the Chinese and Indian case, brand value is an issue. My boss circulated a pile of CVs last year and we helped him to spot the gems. An interesting observation was CS/engineering degree from Indian was by default viewed as okay (although an Indian friend told me that outside the circle of IIIT/IIIM and some of the national universities, the rest were just so and so) while most people did not know Beijing and Tsinghua (esp) were actually the top two from the Chinese pile. In fact, from my years of interaction with various Tsinghua guys during the university research era, they are all quite bright and at least have okay English. Not that different from the ones you meet from others top schools around the world.
 
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unkpath
Posts: 289
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 8:44 pm

1/3 quants are french ?

May 21st, 2007, 11:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: pb273I have been interviewing many candidates for quite a few quant roles (for New York) for the last 6 months, and given what I get, I can tell you that out of every 20 guys, 12 are Chinese, 4 are Indians, 2 are Russians/East Europeans and only 1 is French and the remaining 1 is rest of world incl Brits & Americans.That is very different to my experience. In my last few banks, the teams have been rather French heavy. The curent team is 75% French, actually, and this is not a European bank.They are definitely overrepresened, but this is not a huge surprise. In England, the brightest people tend to do science degrees. In France, they tend to be more likely to do a financial course. As quans, in general, need to be both bright and tutored in the subject, this gives them an edge.you seem to be confirming a love of the french for corporatism, in that instance a desire to recruit among their own kind. given their disdain for the english language, this is hardly surprising. but tell us, what are your last few banks and if you cannot tell us this, how many are there. it is obviously not easy to make judgements based on one's own experience. one thing I can say, is that teams with too monolithic a culture are not always well considered by other teamsin a company that actually promotes cultural diversification.
 
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pb273
Posts: 670
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

1/3 quants are french ?

May 23rd, 2007, 5:38 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: pb273I have been interviewing many candidates for quite a few quant roles (for New York) for the last 6 months, and given what I get, I can tell you that out of every 20 guys, 12 are Chinese, 4 are Indians, 2 are Russians/East Europeans and only 1 is French and the remaining 1 is rest of world incl Brits & Americans.That is very different to my experience. In my last few banks, the teams have been rather French heavy. The curent team is 75% French, actually, and this is not a European bank.They are definitely overrepresened, but this is not a huge surprise. In England, the brightest people tend to do science degrees. In France, they tend to be more likely to do a financial course. As quans, in general, need to be both bright and tutored in the subject, this gives them an edge.So, most likely you have been recruited for just being a french by banks already filled with french - but's thats just a conditional probability.
 
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lehalle
Posts: 50
Joined: April 19th, 2006, 7:13 am

1/3 quants are french ?

May 24th, 2007, 7:24 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCNope.We have the CVs of enough quants to know for a fact that it's far less than 1/3.The French have a decent share of the market, and French schools produce a lot of good Masters level people, but I'd put it under 10%But one does find local concentrations of 1/3 or even higher.Having only CVs, you have a bias in your statistics : may be that only 10% of quants which are not satisfied by their job are french, but it is undoubtly because french quants are so skilled that they have good salaries and good working conditions where they are ;{)}More seriously I think that this statistic is very difficult to compute.First, how many quants in the whole world?
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