SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

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torontosimpleguy
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

February 28th, 2010, 8:31 pm

Yves Smith in Naked Capitalism thinks that Goldman Sachs is already condemned to death,Is Goldman Finally About to be Leashed and Collared?After some thinking I tend to agree with her.American elite needs to make a sacrifice for American commoners. Otherwise the whole construct of American capitalism can become shaky. So, it's better for elite to surrender GS than upset the whole construction.And GS is a convenient target for such sacrifice. It's a huge investment bank, which was engaged in numerous unethical investment transactions. Everybody also hates it for arrogance and big bonuses.Also it's as well a convenient target for European elite for its involvement into the Greek fraud.Another point is that the US elite also needs to show China and the whole world that it is very serious about fixing the "broken financial system."So, all this stuff makes GS situation extremely unstable in my view.
 
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deepvalue
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 7:39 am

you didn't make partner at gs and now you wanna get even?
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 9:10 am

Goldman Sachs: the Gangster Bankster with the Fed's Blessings tsg: don't forget that the Fed is controlled by a cabal of bankers
 
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rmax
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 10:25 am

Not so fast. Andersen going down is on a whole different plain. The principle governening Auditors is to "do the right thing and stop the owners getting screwed by the employees" they clearly failed both of these points with Enron.GS's principle is make cash. Something that they are very very good at doing. GS just will just become a partnership again.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 2:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: deepvalueyou didn't make partner at gs and now you wanna get even?I don't care about Goldman per se.I came to conclusion that slaughter of Goldman is necessary from a systemic point of view.Nobody currently knows how to fix the financial system as problematical and interconnected system. So, the solution is to scare market participants so they are not involved into behavior that is destructive to the very fabric of market economy.And how one can achieve this? It's to kill the most powerful, most arrogant, most destructive 'animal.' It is how medieval kings acted towards theirs selfish and influential feudal lords.
Last edited by torontosimpleguy on February 28th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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rmax
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 2:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: deepvalueyou didn't make partner at gs and now you wanna get even?I don't care about Goldman per se.I came to conclusion that slaughter of Goldman is necessary from a systemic point of view.Nobody currently knows how to fix the financial system as problematical and interconnected system. So, the solution is to scare market participants so they are not involved into behavior that is destructive to the very fabric of market economy.And how one can achieve this? It's to kill the most powerful, most arrogant, most destructive 'animal.' It is how medieval kings acted towards theirs selfish and influential feudal lords.Thought that was Mr D Fuld and Lehman Brothers Co?
 
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farmer
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Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 2:49 pm

GS is on the enemies list of the American right-wing movement, as a consequence of their sleeping around with Democrats. And they are naturally on the enemies list of about half of the groups that make up the Democrat-voting coalition. And they have been on my enemies list ever since I saw some enviro crap on their web site.Given this situation, and considering that they are based out of the United States where businesses are supposed to be safe from politicians and the mob, what is the effect? Some would say at the very least they won't get any more Mexican bond bailouts. So how important are such bailouts, and their political reputation, to their business?The mortgage business, for example, was largely shaped by politicians. But other businesses, like forex trading, are less affected. Commodities like oil, and treasury bonds, are somewhere in between. And investment banking is not really shaped by regulators, but is perhaps influenced by popularity.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 3:05 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: deepvalueyou didn't make partner at gs and now you wanna get even?I don't care about Goldman per se.I came to conclusion that slaughter of Goldman is necessary from a systemic point of view.Nobody currently knows how to fix the financial system as problematical and interconnected system. So, the solution is to scare market participants so they are not involved into behavior that is destructive to the very fabric of market economy.And how one can achieve this? It's to kill the most powerful, most arrogant, most destructive 'animal.' It is how medieval kings acted towards theirs selfish and influential feudal lords.Thought that was Mr D Fuld and Lehman Brothers Co?Those were not qualified as the most powerful animals. So, going after them hadn’t achieved the goal but only encouraged the bigger players.P.S. We can learn here from "king Putin" how he went after the biggest oligarch Khodorkovsky to constrain them all.
 
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halik
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Joined: December 15th, 2009, 1:59 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 3:37 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxNot so fast. Andersen going down is on a whole different plain. The principle governening Auditors is to "do the right thing and stop the owners getting screwed by the employees" they clearly failed both of these points with Enron.GS's principle is make cash. Something that they are very very good at doing. GS just will just become a partnership again.Seconded. The only thing that Goldman does differently than other bulge bracket firms is that they're right more often. This current debacle is nothing more than populism fueled by sensationalist media portrayal. Just read the comments on the bottom of cnbc articles (greek troubles linked to goldman sachs derivatives transactions etc. ) - millions of common folk bitching how goldman is evil greedy bankers, yet none of them could tell you what a derivative is. Also I find it very amusing that people extend the 'predatory lending' argument to sovereign nations. Big bad goldman sachs just told greece to sign on the dotted line and they'd get shiny new house errrr euro membership. Who will protect good hardworking nations from predatory bankers like Goldman?
Last edited by halik on February 28th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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rmax
Posts: 6080
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:31 am

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 5:44 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: deepvalueyou didn't make partner at gs and now you wanna get even?I don't care about Goldman per se.I came to conclusion that slaughter of Goldman is necessary from a systemic point of view.Nobody currently knows how to fix the financial system as problematical and interconnected system. So, the solution is to scare market participants so they are not involved into behavior that is destructive to the very fabric of market economy.And how one can achieve this? It's to kill the most powerful, most arrogant, most destructive 'animal.' It is how medieval kings acted towards theirs selfish and influential feudal lords.Thought that was Mr D Fuld and Lehman Brothers Co?Those were not qualified as the most powerful animals. So, going after them hadn’t achieved the goal but only encouraged the bigger players.P.S. We can learn here from "king Putin" how he went after the biggest oligarch Khodorkovsky to constrain them all.LEH was not the biggest player but:- It is the largest bankruptcy in corporate history- The S&P500 fell from 1255 19th Sep to 899 10th Oct- The dislocation in the market caused a whole other load of defaultsEveryone got spanked. Don't see how that has encourgaed the bigger players.
 
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rmax
Posts: 6080
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:31 am

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 5:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: halikJust read the comments on the bottom of cnbc articles (greek troubles linked to goldman sachs derivatives transactions etc. ) - millions of common folk bitching how goldman is evil greedy bankers, yet none of them could tell you what a derivative is. Agreed. I want to put some of these people into a market making trading simulator and say if they underperform benchmark for >3 days they get fired - all while keeping within their risk limits. Think they would realise that the environment is much more demanding with much more downside than their current job.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 5:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxDon't see how that has encourgaed the bigger players.obvious ... going back to business as usual ... and engaging in practice destructive to economy as a whole ...reread my posts again next time before asking questions, which I already addressed before ...
 
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Gmike2000
Posts: 801
Joined: September 25th, 2003, 9:49 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 8:48 pm

i fail to see why GS should be singled out as the culprit, just because they survived.during the bubble heydays, they were not the ones who were aggressively marketing exotic CDO deals. other banks were much more pushy, ML comes to mind, or UBS.the thing with GS was that they were able to handle even the most messed up and super toxic deals....WHENEVER their clients REQUESTED them to do so (!).keep in mind these structured things were made to order, they were demanded by less sophisticated investors who were forced to compete (with sophisticated funds) by taking on more risk. it was an easy way to generate 15% p.a. (with AA rated investments) during 2004/2005/2006/2007. you dont believe how many idiots populate buy side fund management and buying this crap is the only way they can generate a decent (short lived) track record vs the real players.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Posts: 1011
Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 1st, 2010, 9:02 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Gmike2000i fail to see why GS should be singled out as the culprit, just because they survived.As I said, to maintain the stability of the system. It may be somewhat unfair for them but it is required for the benefit of the "greater good."
 
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farmer
Posts: 13462
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 2nd, 2010, 5:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Gmike2000buying this crap is the only way they can generate a decent (short lived) track record vs the real players.Who are "the real players?" Is it some imaginary Tyler Durden of the financial world?I would guess the "real players" are US Republican politicians who are within reach of burying alive that entire GS animal...
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