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torontosimpleguy
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 9th, 2010, 1:43 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyContemplating: Actually there are lots of stupid people everywhere. And we have to live with idiots around us. (Thank You, God!)P.S. In reality, I guess, idiots serve as reservoirs of "wild genes" to maintain stability of the system.You are one crazy weirdo.You are a crank. You gotta stick to peer-reviewed mumbo jumbo. When wackos are left-wing and politically correct, it's socially valid.I wasn't talking about you particularly. It was a general observation.
 
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farmer
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 9th, 2010, 1:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyI wasn't talking about you particularly. It was a general observation. Nice. Now let's be useful idiots and destroy Goldman Sachs.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 9th, 2010, 2:05 pm

Goldman will die (maybe next year?). Obama has no choice. He has no brain to fix economy, so he would have to sacrifice something (otherwise he himself will be treated openly as incompetent bastard). And Goldman is the primary target that might satisfy public.
 
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TradingSimulator
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 9th, 2010, 3:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: LTrain>> Sound politician would first fix the productive part of economy and later >> start fixing the distributive part of it A sound politician would get out of the way and keep their hands off the economy... I never met a politician who could fix ANYTHING...Politics and Economy are kids from the same family -- perhaps their parents and other relatives should help.
Last edited by TradingSimulator on March 8th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LTrain
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Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 9th, 2010, 3:49 pm

>> Politics and Economy are kids from the same family And therein lies the root of the problem. The economy and politics should be third cousins at best... not entwined lovers. What part/howMuch of the economy do you justify turning over to individual politicians??? My answer is a pretty small number. >> When wackos are left-wing and politically correct, it's socially validTrue. Liberalism today is just a different form of prejudice and bigotry hiding under the disguise of political correctness.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 15th, 2010, 12:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaWe only disagree on the implementation.I agree that, for centuries, bankers WERE concerned with their firms' survival. Banks' historical instinct for self-preservation was why Greenspan assumed things would be OK. But that historical tendency is now gone because the world is not the same.The modern mobility of capital and employees changes everything.The difference in "implementation" between us is that you are a fatalist who prefers to lie down and die quietly while I am a survivor who prefers to stand and fight for our lives.What's funny is that true survivors aren't aggressive (aggression is a risky, non-survivalist strategy). Instead, true survivors prepare for such a wide range of possible futures that they survive any crash. Moreover, if more people acted that way by investing in a wide-ranging mix of aggressive and conservative investments, then the economic system would be both less likely to have any crises and have almost no chance of severe crises. It's when too many people slosh too much capital into 100% aggressive and then into 100% conservative strategies that we blow-up the system.One deep irony of the recent crisis is that it began as a flight-to-safety response to the dot-com crash. People fled equities in 2000-2002 and started shoving all their capital into "safe" assets like housing. After all, housing prices could never drop like stock prices can drop, could they? What people discovered is that the value of the housing investments were MORE volatile than those dot-com stocks. In fact, unlike equities, homeowners' losses weren't limited to their initial investments.What you're talking about is an old school in investment -- static allocation. Now intelligent practitioners are engaged in dynamic allocation depending on the market condition. And so far IMHO theoretical finance's addressed only one aspect of dynamic allocation -- dynamic hedging.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 15th, 2010, 1:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: torontosimpleguyQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaWe only disagree on the implementation.I agree that, for centuries, bankers WERE concerned with their firms' survival. Banks' historical instinct for self-preservation was why Greenspan assumed things would be OK. But that historical tendency is now gone because the world is not the same.The modern mobility of capital and employees changes everything.The difference in "implementation" between us is that you are a fatalist who prefers to lie down and die quietly while I am a survivor who prefers to stand and fight for our lives.What's funny is that true survivors aren't aggressive (aggression is a risky, non-survivalist strategy). Instead, true survivors prepare for such a wide range of possible futures that they survive any crash. Moreover, if more people acted that way by investing in a wide-ranging mix of aggressive and conservative investments, then the economic system would be both less likely to have any crises and have almost no chance of severe crises. It's when too many people slosh too much capital into 100% aggressive and then into 100% conservative strategies that we blow-up the system.One deep irony of the recent crisis is that it began as a flight-to-safety response to the dot-com crash. People fled equities in 2000-2002 and started shoving all their capital into "safe" assets like housing. After all, housing prices could never drop like stock prices can drop, could they? What people discovered is that the value of the housing investments were MORE volatile than those dot-com stocks. In fact, unlike equities, homeowners' losses weren't limited to their initial investments.What you're talking about is an old school in investment -- static allocation. Now intelligent practitioners are engaged in dynamic allocation depending on the market condition. And so far IMHO theoretical finance's addressed only one aspect of dynamic allocation -- dynamic hedging.LOL! You really do want to blow up the financial system.From what I've seen of dynamic hedging and dynamic allocation, they are all but guaranteed to destabilize the markets. If you have a population of dynamic allocators that use correlated data (i.e, they tap into the same data sources) and use correlated models (i.e. they read the same quant finance journals), you will generate correlated buying and selling patterns that induce self-amplifying bubbles and busts.A financial system can have small amounts of dynamic allocation, but the assumptions behind dynamic allocation are violated by markets that are full of dynamic allocators.
 
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torontosimpleguy
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Joined: July 12th, 2004, 5:51 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 15th, 2010, 1:15 pm

You may like or dislike it but you can't stop progress in practical finance and dictate in free country what people should be doing in their 'bedrooms' (allegorically speaking here).
 
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fars1d3s
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Joined: August 14th, 2004, 12:28 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

March 17th, 2010, 2:08 pm

Goldman Sachs Demands Collateral It Won’t Dish Out
 
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Paul
Posts: 10064
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 16th, 2010, 1:50 pm

SEC Accuses Goldman Sachs of FraudP
 
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daveangel
Posts: 17031
Joined: October 20th, 2003, 4:05 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 16th, 2010, 3:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulSEC Accuses Goldman Sachs of FraudPheavy sh*t man !
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers
 
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farmer
Posts: 13462
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 16th, 2010, 8:56 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerGiven this situation, and considering that they are based out of the United States where businesses are supposed to be safe from politicians and the mob, what is the effect?This fraud charge is just the tip of the iceberg. I predict it will spread like wildfire to include indictments against over 11,836,000 SISA borrowers who went into default.Or maybe not... DESTROY THEM!Anyway, the case sounds pretty strong. I still think Goldman should be torched for pushing Ariba, and about 1,000 other things.
Last edited by farmer on April 15th, 2010, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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KTE
Posts: 227
Joined: February 4th, 2002, 3:21 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 17th, 2010, 2:47 am

There are some people on this board who have a good working knowledge of GS while I don't. However, I would not count GS out in this fight. GS will have the best legal team possible to defend itself. The government will have.....government lawyers. The publicity will get worse for them for a while though, no doubt. And I would not bet too much on the "pile on" effect either, unless it involves other public securities. Many of the GS deals are private placements and are subject to sophisticated investor rules. They can be sued if there was fraud, as alleged in this situation, but the government can't join in those lawsuits.
 
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onedollar
Posts: 24
Joined: January 4th, 2008, 2:37 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 17th, 2010, 11:52 am

hehe. The SEC is not going to win this case given the current facts, product and the investors clients involved. Reputation might take a further short-term hit on the FIG structuring and advisory side of the business.
 
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daveangel
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Joined: October 20th, 2003, 4:05 pm

Will GS become next Arthur Andersen?

April 17th, 2010, 1:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: onedollarhehe. The SEC is not going to win this case given the current facts, product and the investors clients involved. Reputation might take a further short-term hit on the FIG structuring and advisory side of the business.don't bet on it...
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers
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