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Paul
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December 20th, 2011, 10:22 am

My understanding is that gc is correct, some countries (or country) saw the EU as a way of avoiding future wars, others saw it as pure trade related. Of course, five minutes watching children in a kindergarten* and you will realise that forcing people together when they don't want to be only increases the probability of tantrums. Dumb. dumb, dumb.P* Germany has given us some wonderful words, everyone's favourite being schadenfreude!
 
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katastrofa
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December 20th, 2011, 10:24 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxTo avoid fighting the prohibitive cost of life, the UK and the US gave way much of the Eastern Countries to the USSR in return for not reaching Berlin. Well before reaching Berlin, the Russians had to cross into these countries, and what could the US and UK do about it?
 
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katastrofa
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December 20th, 2011, 10:25 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Paul* Germany has given us some wonderful words, everyone's favourite being schadenfreude!"Schadenfreude" is German for "failed Bund auction".
 
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Cuchulainn
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December 20th, 2011, 10:35 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYalta was a pure publicity stunt.You must ask katastrofa what Yalta was. He's an expert in Yalta, not you. You may be only an expert in Great Famine.Would we move historic threads elsewhere, please?FYI, there was no famine, just a potato crop failure. There was lots of other crops. But history is history and it's over and done with.You can read about Yalta in history books It's all well-documented.
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croot
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December 20th, 2011, 10:42 am

Quotethere was no famine, just a potato crop failureWow How stupid I was remembering this as famine,when in fact all it was was a period of heightened volatility for the Potato Yield Index, and a liquidity hole affecting various snack market players in the Eire-zone.Finance really can make things better (EDIT: sorry for irrelevance. Go Europe, go!)
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Cuchulainn
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December 20th, 2011, 11:24 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: crootQuotethere was no famine, just a potato crop failureWow How stupid I was remembering this as famine,when in fact all it was was a period of heightened volatility for the Potato Yield Index, and a liquidity hole affecting various snack market players in the Eire-zone.Finance really can make things better (EDIT: sorry for irrelevance. Go Europe, go!)You left out 1/2 of the quote.
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croot
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December 20th, 2011, 11:28 am

Quote left, out! I'd like to disagree on this sort of overly political stance being voiced out on a general purpose research inspired forum. Also, the left sometimes plays a useful role.Season's greetings everyone
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Cuchulainn
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December 20th, 2011, 11:37 am

I did not bring this up in the first place More of a concern for historical accuracy. BTW the word "Eire" is rarely used these dayshappy Christmas too
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Anthis
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December 20th, 2011, 4:27 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalWhy would European coalition not work. frenchX? Very strange coalitions did work, so can EU. Only an integrated body wouldn't. Germany doesn't want unified Europe, Germany itself isn't unified, all we want is some responsibility of debtors. Partners, not slaves. Slaves are dangerous, because they don't think about future - and if you don't think about future, you don't control your obligations.Are you a proud Merkel voter, or are you into some sort of psycho-mental disorder?
 
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rmax
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December 20th, 2011, 4:43 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: katastrofaQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxTo avoid fighting the prohibitive cost of life, the UK and the US gave way much of the Eastern Countries to the USSR in return for not reaching Berlin. Well before reaching Berlin, the Russians had to cross into these countries, and what could the US and UK do about it?What did they do about Poland? What did the they do about Korean? What did they do about Kuwait? You can do anything you like if you have the will, and are willing to face the consequences. Unsurpringsly after 6 years of total war, no-one wanted to fight the USSR.
 
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TinMan
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December 20th, 2011, 10:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxAs will all Yes Minister it all is still applicable. The Writing on the Wall was broadcast 24 March 1980 and The Devil you know was broadcast 23 March 1981. For those that have not seen the programme, Sir Humphrey is a Civil Servant, and Hacker is the elected minister.QuoteEpisode Five: The Writing on the WallSir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well? Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely? Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing [the EEC] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times. Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal? Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister. Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership? Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes. Hacker: What appalling cynicism. Sir Humphrey: Yes... We call it diplomacy, Minister. QuoteEpisode Five: The Devil You KnowHacker: Europe is a community of nations, dedicated towards one goal. Sir Humphrey: Oh, ha ha ha. Hacker: May we share the joke, Humphrey? Sir Humphrey: Oh Minister, let's look at this objectively. It is a game played for national interests, and always was. Why do you suppose we went into it? Hacker: To strengthen the brotherhood of free Western nations. Sir Humphrey: Oh really. We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans. Hacker: So why did the French go into it, then? Sir Humphrey: Well, to protect their inefficient farmers from commercial competition. Hacker: That certainly doesn't apply to the Germans. Sir Humphrey: No, no. They went in to cleanse themselves of genocide and apply for readmission to the human race. Hacker: I never heard such appalling cynicism! At least the small nations didn't go into it for selfish reasons. Sir Humphrey: Oh really? Luxembourg is in it for the perks; the capital of the EEC, all that foreign money pouring in. Hacker: Very sensible central location. Sir Humphrey: With the administration in Brussels and the Parliament in Strasbourg? Minister, it's like having the House of Commons in Swindon and the Civil Service in Kettering! Should be compulsory viewing even now, it must be the one of the greatest pieces of propoganda ever. Amazing that it's still relevant today.
 
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Gamal
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December 21st, 2011, 6:38 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnthisQuoteOriginally posted by: GamalWhy would European coalition not work. frenchX? Very strange coalitions did work, so can EU. Only an integrated body wouldn't. Germany doesn't want unified Europe, Germany itself isn't unified, all we want is some responsibility of debtors. Partners, not slaves. Slaves are dangerous, because they don't think about future - and if you don't think about future, you don't control your obligations.Are you a proud Merkel voter, or are you into some sort of psycho-mental disorder?Any other propositions? Here you have the menu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... GermanyAnd some respect, please, I will be paying your debt.
 
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rmax
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December 21st, 2011, 7:55 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: GamalAnd some respect, please, I will be paying your debt.Ouch. But if one is a Euro supporter then it doesn't matter as it is for the greater good.
 
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Gamal
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December 21st, 2011, 8:13 am

It is even worse, rmax. All tax payers in eurozone will be paying debt of Anthis and his compatriots, eurosceptics too. Euro had very little support in Germany, it was introduced as a deal with France about unification. Euro would be never accepted in a German referendum.
 
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rmax
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December 21st, 2011, 8:16 am

Interesting - I did not know that. I thought Germany was always pro EU and hence pro-Euro.
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