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AlexEro
Posts: 145
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 17th, 2015, 5:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunNo it doesn't.For starters even the smallest trading firms I've worked with uses full orderbook-flow data from multiple market/exchanges.Sorry, "Doesn't" what ?In the past in one of the labor dept. filings RenTec stated that it uses mostly *futures* market.Now in the new filings they claim that:"8. According to the Applicant, the Medallion Funds invest and trade in various types of financial instruments as determined by Renaissance, including, without limitation: (a) equity securities and related instruments, such as common and preferred stocks, ADRs, options, warrants, convertible securities and swaps and other derivatives relating to equity securities, (b) futures contracts (and options thereon) and forward contract transactions, and (c) fixed income securities and related derivatives, including U.S. and non-U.S. government issued (and U.S. government agency guaranteed) securities, mortgage-related securities and derivatives and credit default swaps."RenTec labor filings.................................................................................................................Several additional details about RenTec here:In recent years Simons seems to be especially keen on stockpiling computational linguists who have worked on building computers that can recognize speech. He has hired away a good part of the speech recognition group from IBM Corp. Why computational linguists? "Investing and speech recognition are very similar," says one Renaissance researcher. "In both, you?re trying to guess the next thing that happens."Simons interview
 
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daveangel
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Joined: October 20th, 2003, 4:05 pm

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 17th, 2015, 7:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroQuoteOriginally posted by: outrunNo it doesn't.For starters even the smallest trading firms I've worked with uses full orderbook-flow data from multiple market/exchanges.Sorry, "Doesn't" what ?In the past in one of the labor dept. filings RenTec stated that it uses mostly *futures* market.Now in the new filings they claim that:"8. According to the Applicant, the Medallion Funds invest and trade in various types of financial instruments as determined by Renaissance, including, without limitation: (a) equity securities and related instruments, such as common and preferred stocks, ADRs, options, warrants, convertible securities and swaps and other derivatives relating to equity securities, (b) futures contracts (and options thereon) and forward contract transactions, and (c) fixed income securities and related derivatives, including U.S. and non-U.S. government issued (and U.S. government agency guaranteed) securities, mortgage-related securities and derivatives and credit default swaps."RenTec labor filings.................................................................................................................Several additional details about RenTec here:In recent years Simons seems to be especially keen on stockpiling computational linguists who have worked on building computers that can recognize speech. He has hired away a good part of the speech recognition group from IBM Corp. Why computational linguists? "Investing and speech recognition are very similar," says one Renaissance researcher. "In both, you?re trying to guess the next thing that happens."Simons interviewnothing surprising there - they would want to keep it broad. just because they say that they might do something doesn't bind them to do it.
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bearish
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Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 18th, 2015, 12:59 am

Deep down in the beginning of the modern version of this thread, there is a bizarre claim that futures prices are not really prices: "1). RenTec is not predicting the price. Price is too random for their algos. They predict the prediction of price. They trade futures. The futures price is the result of numerous decisions made by a number of humans, using their "visions" AND usual trading tools: Moving Averages etc.2). Visions of all traders and money managers on Wall Street are "analogous". They are smooth like a sound of music. Therefore the futures are more smooth than regular direct (random) prices."This is of course all nonsense, as futures markets are typically much more liquid and transparent than the underlying cash markets, and thus really the market place where the price is defined. On this solid foundation, a lot of speculation is built...
 
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AnalyticalVega
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Joined: January 16th, 2013, 5:03 am

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 18th, 2015, 4:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: bearishDeep down in the beginning of the modern version of this thread, there is a bizarre claim that futures prices are not really prices: "1). RenTec is not predicting the price. Price is too random for their algos. They predict the prediction of price. They trade futures. The futures price is the result of numerous decisions made by a number of humans, using their "visions" AND usual trading tools: Moving Averages etc.2). Visions of all traders and money managers on Wall Street are "analogous". They are smooth like a sound of music. Therefore the futures are more smooth than regular direct (random) prices."This is of course all nonsense, as futures markets are typically much more liquid and transparent than the underlying cash markets, and thus really the market place where the price is defined. On this solid foundation, a lot of speculation is built...'They predict the prediction of price. They trade futures. '>> Futures is not really a price prediction tool, the contracts are traded as an asset. There is way too much speculation by outsiders.
 
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zloty
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Joined: November 17th, 2015, 4:33 pm

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 18th, 2015, 12:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroI did it for the music 10+ years ago, in very general form, half-way. This is very exotic combination of very old methods. They are very limited. In simply words, in modern math world there are NO OTHER methods. (I am a first person in modern "everything digital" world, who explained where and why Nyquist-Kotelnikov sampling theorem is incorrect. In russian, in old 1993-1999.)Much later, digging into trading math methods I have found an integview with Simons, where he very, very briefly, indirectly admits that they use EXACTLY those old methods. Poor James! He clearly underestimates other mathematicians, who is carefully watching his interviews. Taking a look into their job (wanted) list you also can figure out what methods they use.Again, this is not ONE method.The big secret of RenTec is how to combine them.Never mind Rentec for the moment. In what sense is the Nyquist sampling theorem incorrect? Did you or anyone else publish this somewhere? I see no mention of it anywhere. Given that Nyquist is the bedrock of pretty much all DSP, it would be an earth-shattering discovery to find that it is incorrect.
 
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AlexEro
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Location: Ukraine

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 18th, 2015, 1:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zlotyNever mind Rentec for the moment. In what sense is the Nyquist sampling theorem incorrect? Did you or anyone else publish this somewhere? I see no mention of it anywhere. Given that Nyquist is the bedrock of pretty much all DSP, it would be an earth-shattering discovery to find that it is incorrect.Nothing will happen. All radio-engineers are too stupid. All of them.Please read the topic on forex-tsd.com site mentioned above.The links to several of my articles (in russian) from 1993-1999 can be found on my site.
Last edited by AlexEro on November 17th, 2015, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Cuchulainn
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 23rd, 2015, 10:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zlotyQuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroI did it for the music 10+ years ago, in very general form, half-way. This is very exotic combination of very old methods. They are very limited. In simply words, in modern math world there are NO OTHER methods. (I am a first person in modern "everything digital" world, who explained where and why Nyquist-Kotelnikov sampling theorem is incorrect. In russian, in old 1993-1999.)Much later, digging into trading math methods I have found an integview with Simons, where he very, very briefly, indirectly admits that they use EXACTLY those old methods. Poor James! He clearly underestimates other mathematicians, who is carefully watching his interviews. Taking a look into their job (wanted) list you also can figure out what methods they use.Again, this is not ONE method.The big secret of RenTec is how to combine them.Never mind Rentec for the moment. In what sense is the Nyquist sampling theorem incorrect? Did you or anyone else publish this somewhere? I see no mention of it anywhere. Given that Nyquist is the bedrock of pretty much all DSP, it would be an earth-shattering discovery to find that it is incorrect.You Russians are always inventing things in mathematics. And then writing a 2-page article on it while others need 40 pages.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on November 22nd, 2015, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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AlexEro
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Location: Ukraine

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 29th, 2015, 6:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYou Russians are always inventing things in mathematics. And then writing a 2-page article on it while others need 40 pages.I tend to agree.Even more, this is a big problem when I am trying to explain in 2 pages to my (blondie model) wife that the key of the problem with Nyquist-Kotelnikov sampling theorem via Fourier transform is that in fact it is a tautology as defined by a Gödel's incompleteness theorems and Church-Turing thesis. Strange, it is not an easy task for her to understand it, and then she look at me in a strange way.
Last edited by AlexEro on June 20th, 2016, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Cuchulainn
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 29th, 2015, 7:38 pm

You should start with examples, maybe Peano's postulates.
 
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AlexEro
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 30th, 2015, 6:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYou should start with examples, maybe Peano's postulates.You mean wih my wife, or with investors who may want to replicate RenTec's performance? Or with scientific article about all this staff?In any of this case, thank you for your kind suggestion.
 
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daveangel
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Joined: October 20th, 2003, 4:05 pm

RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

November 30th, 2015, 9:11 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYou should start with examples, maybe Peano's postulates.You mean wih my wife, or with investors who may want to replicate RenTec's performance? Or with scientific article about all this staff?In any of this case, thank you for your kind suggestion.how can you replicate something that you cannot quantify
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AlexEro
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

December 1st, 2015, 1:36 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: daveangelQuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYou should start with examples, maybe Peano's postulates.You mean wih my wife, or with investors who may want to replicate RenTec's performance? Or with scientific article about all this staff?In any of this case, thank you for your kind suggestion.how can you replicate something that you cannot quantifyHow you can always post something on forum board that you cannot observe in positive way and being always negative? Age?
 
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daveangel
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RenTech: using artificial intelligence to morph one trading strategy into another?

December 1st, 2015, 8:05 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroQuoteOriginally posted by: daveangelQuoteOriginally posted by: AlexEroQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnYou should start with examples, maybe Peano's postulates.You mean wih my wife, or with investors who may want to replicate RenTec's performance? Or with scientific article about all this staff?In any of this case, thank you for your kind suggestion.how can you replicate something that you cannot quantifyHow you can always post something on forum board that you cannot observe in positive way and being always negative? Age?is this a dialogue interieur ?
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers