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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 22966
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 1:27 pm

I remember when a florin was a gold coin of about 1/8 Troy ounce but you could not buy any ice cream with it at all.

What's misleading about ppauper's chart is the absolutely massive increase in productivity that has bolstered wages and cut the prices of consumer goods denominated in wages.  Go back and look at the price of a car in 1913, the median wage in 1913, the features of that 1913 car and then compare that to a 2017 automobile bought with the 2017 median wages.  A 1913 dollar was surely worth far less than a 2017 dollar because no amount of 1913 dollars could buy the knds of goods that 2017 consumers buy today.

Surely the exchange rate between money today and money tomorrow is a function of the availability of competing low-risk assets (and frictions in moving between asset classes).  A stable growing economy with low-friction financial services would almost inevitably have some modest rate of inflation that is linked to the economy's long-term growth rate and induced by equilibration of true cash versus low-risk assets as a store of value.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
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Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 6:43 pm

I remember when a florin was a gold coin of about 1/8 Troy ounce but you could not buy any ice cream with it at all.

Sorry to hear that. Did you have a plan B.
http://www.datasimfinancial.com

“Sir Walter Scott created rank & caste in the South and also reverence for and pride and pleasure in them"

Mark Twain
 
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ISayMoo
Posts: 351
Joined: September 30th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 6:58 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
 A stable growing economy with low-friction financial services would almost inevitably have some modest rate of inflation that is linked to the economy's long-term growth rate and induced by equilibration of true cash versus low-risk assets as a store of value.

Dream scenario for financial intermediaries.
 
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Cuchulainn
Posts: 53314
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Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 7:32 pm

ISayMoo wrote:
Traden4Alpha wrote:
 A stable growing economy with low-friction financial services would almost inevitably have some modest rate of inflation that is linked to the economy's long-term growth rate and induced by equilibration of true cash versus low-risk assets as a store of value.

Dream scenario for financial intermediaries.

The Invisible Hand.
http://www.datasimfinancial.com

“Sir Walter Scott created rank & caste in the South and also reverence for and pride and pleasure in them"

Mark Twain
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 8:12 pm

Paul wrote:
Cuchulainn wrote:
anyone remember the good ole days when the Dutch florin was inextricably linked to DM?
1 DM = 1.12 Guilder AMEN.

Image

I remember when a 99 (the ice cream) was an English florin. It's now £2.50.
Don't you hate it when the young person serving the ice cream asks if you want the 99 with a flake? It's like a barista asking if you want water in your coffee.

There is only petrol station in the world where I buy 99s. I used to work in such a place and the smell of diesel is precondition. 99s in the shopping malls have no taste.
http://www.datasimfinancial.com

“Sir Walter Scott created rank & caste in the South and also reverence for and pride and pleasure in them"

Mark Twain
 
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ppauper
Posts: 64814
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 10:20 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
What's misleading about ppauper's chart is the absolutely massive increase in productivity that has bolstered wages and cut the prices of consumer goods denominated in wages.  Go back and look at the price of a car in 1913, the median wage in 1913, the features of that 1913 car and then compare that to a 2017 automobile bought with the 2017 median wages.  A 1913 dollar was surely worth far less than a 2017 dollar because no amount of 1913 dollars could buy the knds of goods that 2017 consumers buy today.


Unless you're claiming that any productivity increases since 1913 were caused by the Fed, I'm not sure what your point is. Inflation destroys savings.
 
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ISayMoo
Posts: 351
Joined: September 30th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 10:33 pm

Deflation destroys jobs.
 
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ISayMoo
Posts: 351
Joined: September 30th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 6th, 2017, 10:34 pm

 
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ppauper
Posts: 64814
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 12:06 am

here's another chart for you all
Image
 
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ISayMoo
Posts: 351
Joined: September 30th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 12:17 am

Still, would you rather live and work now or in 1775?
 
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bearish
Posts: 2550
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 1:50 am

ISayMoo wrote:
Still, would you rather live and work now or in 1775?

My bet would be 1860. Still not much inflation, no Fed, and that other thing.
 
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ppauper
Posts: 64814
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 8:00 am

ISayMoo wrote:
Still, would you rather live and work now or in 1775?

A false dichotomy.
I'd rather live now without the Fed.
 
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ppauper
Posts: 64814
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 8:09 am

bearish wrote:
ISayMoo wrote:
Still, would you rather live and work now or in 1775?

My bet would be 1860. Still not much inflation, no Fed, and that other thing.

that's where we differ.
Bearish might prefer to live in 1860, but I would not. There was the whole war of northern aggression thing, along with lincoln issuing greenbacks
 
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Cuchulainn
Posts: 53314
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
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Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 9:17 am

ppauper wrote:
bearish wrote:
ISayMoo wrote:
Still, would you rather live and work now or in 1775?

My bet would be 1860. Still not much inflation, no Fed, and that other thing.

that's where we differ.
Bearish might prefer to live in 1860, but I would not. There was the whole war of northern aggression thing, along with lincoln issuing greenbacks

In 1775 was there a 2nd Amendment?
http://www.datasimfinancial.com

“Sir Walter Scott created rank & caste in the South and also reverence for and pride and pleasure in them"

Mark Twain
 
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ppauper
Posts: 64814
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: End of bitcoin?

December 7th, 2017, 9:53 am

Cuchulainn wrote:
ppauper wrote:
bearish wrote:
My bet would be 1860. Still not much inflation, no Fed, and that other thing.

that's where we differ.
Bearish might prefer to live in 1860, but I would not. There was the whole war of northern aggression thing, along with lincoln issuing greenbacks

In 1775 was there a 2nd Amendment?

bill of rights wasn't ratified until 1791
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