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tagoma
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Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 12:16 pm

MF Global Probe May Involve Hundreds of Millions in FundsThe brokerage industry damaged by the EU debt crisis: MF Global filed for bankrupcy protection, yesterday.That added to the bearish mood yesterday on commodity markets (ag commodities AFAIK).Any thoughts ?
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 12:44 pm

Technically, it wasn't the brokerage side of the business that cratered but the firm's own positions in subprime sovereigns. If MF had stuck to their knitting (e.g., providing the infrastructure and services of brokering trades), then this would not have happened.
 
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farmer
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Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 4:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaTechnically, it wasn't the brokerage side of the business that cratered but the firm's own positions in subprime sovereigns. If MF had stuck to their knitting (e.g., providing the infrastructure and services of brokering trades), then this would not have happened.Given his experience at Goldman with subprime Mexican, Thai, South Korean, and Russian bonds - in each case he got bailed out through government connections - Corzine was sticking to his knitting.
 
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farmer
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MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 8:26 pm

QuoteThe Associated Press, citing a U.S. official, reported that MF Global admitted to using client money as its troubles mounted. A company executive made the admission to federal regulators in a phone call Monday, the AP said.Wow. You are supposed to use taxpayer money. If you use taxpayer money, you are hailed as some kind of heroic dealmaker. If you use client money, you get kicked to death in the alley.
 
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BullBear
Posts: 860
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 8:33 pm

MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 8:46 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteThe Associated Press, citing a U.S. official, reported that MF Global admitted to using client money as its troubles mounted. A company executive made the admission to federal regulators in a phone call Monday, the AP said.Wow. You are supposed to use taxpayer money. If you use taxpayer money, you are hailed as some kind of heroic dealmaker. If you use client money, you get kicked to death in the alley.So, you agree with Brokers/Banks using their client's brokerage assets/money to fund their own business? MF Global guys must go to jail!Taxpayers are responsible to fund the State which is responsible for Regulation of its financial system. If taxpayers don't want to pay for the State failures on Regulation then just end Central Banking & Banking, allow everyone to lend money and take control of his money - "kill" the middle men - Bankers, Regulators, Risk Managers, Auditors, Politicians, Insurance Schemes - and let interest rates float freely...
 
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farmer
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Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

MF Global

November 1st, 2011, 8:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearIf taxpayers don't want to pay for the State failures on Regulation then just end Central Banking & Banking, allow everyone to lend money and take control of his money - "kill" the middle men - Bankers, Regulators, Risk Managers, Auditors, Politicians, Insurance Schemes - and let interest rates float freely...I am not sure I follow you, so just tell me this: Does somebody get kicked to death?
 
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tagoma
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MF Global

January 28th, 2012, 5:41 pm

the executive chairman of the CMEGroup interviewed on the MF Global case.
 
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ppauper
Posts: 70239
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MF Global

March 24th, 2012, 1:34 pm

MF?s Corzine Ordered Funds Moved to JP Morgan, Memo SaysQuoteJon S. Corzine, MF Global Holding Ltd. (MFGLQ)?s chief executive officer, gave ?direct instructions? to transfer $200 million from a customer fund account to meet an overdraft in a brokerage account with JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), according to a memo written by congressional investigatorsi.e. he stole $200 million of client's money
 
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tagoma
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Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

MF Global

March 25th, 2012, 7:08 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperMF?s Corzine Ordered Funds Moved to JP Morgan, Memo SaysQuoteJon S. Corzine, MF Global Holding Ltd. (MFGLQ)?s chief executive officer, gave ?direct instructions? to transfer $200 million from a customer fund account to meet an overdraft in a brokerage account with JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), according to a memo written by congressional investigatorsi.e. he stole $200 million of client's moneyQuoteEdith O?Brien, a treasurer for the firm, said in an e-mail quoted in the memo that the transfer was "Per JC s direct instructions"divine command ...
Last edited by tagoma on March 24th, 2012, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ppauper
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MF Global

March 25th, 2012, 12:18 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: edouardQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperMF?s Corzine Ordered Funds Moved to JP Morgan, Memo SaysQuoteJon S. Corzine, MF Global Holding Ltd. (MFGLQ)?s chief executive officer, gave ?direct instructions? to transfer $200 million from a customer fund account to meet an overdraft in a brokerage account with JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), according to a memo written by congressional investigatorsi.e. he stole $200 million of client's moneyQuoteEdith O?Brien, a treasurer for the firm, said in an e-mail quoted in the memo that the transfer was ?Per JC?s direct instructions,?divine command ...he should be in prison
 
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list
Posts: 2041
Joined: October 26th, 2005, 2:08 pm

MF Global

March 25th, 2012, 4:25 pm

$200 million were transferred from a customer fund account to meet an overdraft in a brokerage account with JPMorgan Chase. It does not look be stolen. On the other hand "the liquidation of the company?s brokerage subsidiary has estimated a $1.6 billion shortfall between customer claims and assets available". It does not look that problems stemmed from transferred 200 mls
 
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ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

MF Global

March 25th, 2012, 5:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: list$200 million were transferred from a customer fund account to meet an overdraft in a brokerage account with JPMorgan Chase. It does not look be stolen. then they're going to give it back to the customer(s) ?Didn't say we didn't know where it wasThey've stolen money from self-managed customer accounts (people like farmers buying and selling futures) to cover their own losses QuoteOn the other hand "the liquidation of the company?s brokerage subsidiary has estimated a $1.6 billion shortfall between customer claims and assets available". It does not look that problems stemmed from transferred 200 mls no one said it did. They've made sure that their friends aren't the ones left holding the baby
 
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exCBOE
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Joined: May 19th, 2010, 9:48 pm

MF Global

May 6th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Of course the money was stolen or misappropriated or embezzled or whatever euphemism you choose. The underlying question, rarely addressed, is why anyone at MF, including the crook at the top even had the power to misuse customer funds. To understand this, just look at the business model behind a firm like MF. There are firms funds and customer funds, never to be commingled. The customer funds should only be used to buy or sell securities (or more generally, assets) for the benefit of the customer. MF is entitled to a fee for doing this. In return, the customer is owed a fiduciary responsibility to only make investments (or trades) based 100% on the interest of the customer. If the customer has signed on to this model, and MF puts him into discounted GM paper in 2007, or Greek sovereign debt in 2011, the customer may lose. That's show-biz. But if the investment is essentially a loan to the MF proprietary account, that is a conflict of interest. That should be forbidden. MF should not have had the authority or the ability to transfer customer money to its own accounts. Perhaps the legal documents signed by the customer did in fact authorize this. If so, the customers are fools and deserve no protection. If such transfers are forbidden contractually, then they constitute grand larceny and should be treated as such.It is really getting old to blame lax regulation for theft. Theft is already illegal. It is clear cut that the actions at MF constituted theft, unless customers essentially invested their money at MF as equity in MF. or as contractual loans to MF. It is a scandal that there has to be a lengthy investigation. Just read the customer agreements and apply the law.SeeText
 
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tagoma
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Joined: February 21st, 2010, 12:58 pm

MF Global

May 6th, 2012, 2:44 pm

Commodity People Moves - May 2012QuoteRJ O'Brien has announced that it is to set up a full-scale brokerage in London for European Commodities Trading. It has accordingly hired roughly ten brokers and five back-office staff from MF Global. Susana Vivares, MD and Co-Head of West LB's EMEA energy group in London has relocated to New York. Nicolas Viola has joined Ethimex as their Sales Executive for Latin America, Nicolas was previously at S&D Chemicals as an Sales Area Manager for Latin America and the Middle East.
Last edited by tagoma on May 5th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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rmax
Posts: 6080
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:31 am

MF Global

May 10th, 2012, 7:09 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: exCBOEIt is really getting old to blame lax regulation for theft. Theft is already illegal. It is clear cut that the actions at MF constituted theft, unless customers essentially invested their money at MF as equity in MF. or as contractual loans to MF. It is a scandal that there has to be a lengthy investigation. Just read the customer agreements and apply the law.SeeTextOf course correct to some extent - however aren't regulators and auditors supposed to ensure that the company is obeying the law - regulators on behalf of the government and auditors on behalf of the owner/shareholder. I don't see PC Plod entering a company and upholding justice by leafing through the accounts and how they are ring fencing client money.
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