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Alan
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Trump -- the last 100 days

July 11th, 2017, 8:15 pm

Well, now we know after all the denials, the Trump campaign (at least) wanted to collude with the Russians against Hillary. link

A plausible guess at how the meeting ended:

Trump Jr: "Natalia -- bring us some dirt we can use"
Natalia: "yes, sir, we're working on it right now".
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 11th, 2017, 8:41 pm

Indeed, it doesn't look good for Trump. But... politicians like Obama or Clinton are also heavily dependent on extra-national powers: global capital, international elites. This is why they are flocking to Davos, Bilderberg meetings, this is why Obama's first public photo after he quit the White House was him water skiing with Richard Branson. I'd say both types of dependency are anti-democratic and anti-sovereignty. Truly independent politicians are rare (in the UK it would be Corbyn, I suppose).
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 11th, 2017, 10:40 pm

the meeting

what exactly is the crime that is alleged to have been committed?
one of trump's children met with a private citizen, with the meeting arranged by a 3rd party (an acquaintance of trump's son) who seems to have lied to trump's son by offering dirt which was never forthcoming in order to set up the meeting under false pretenses

this isn't like teddy kennedy offering andropov a quid pro quo in 1983

there's nothing there. Limbaugh summed it up, “If it is this incriminating, if it is this deadly, if this is the nail in the coffin, why only now are we hearing about this? It’s got all the ingredients of a story except fact. It has all the ingredients necessary to create illusions and write narratives, but it doesn’t have any substance, By that I mean there was no high-level information from Russia. There was no information from the Russian government incriminating Hillary Clinton. None of that was available.”

perhaps they could have told trump's son about Hillary giving 20% of the U.S. uranium resources to Russia with parties connected to that transaction giving tens of millions of dollars in donations to the Clinton Foundation and BJ Clinton getting paid $500,000 for a speech in Russia (and Putin thanked him personally  for the speech.)
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 11th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Isn't receiving any gifts or favours from foreign entities by political candidates during the campaign illegal in the US?
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 11th, 2017, 11:32 pm

 
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Alan
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 3:11 am

I don't know why, but somehow I am reminded of this: :D
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 6:11 am

it's looking as though this may have been another democratic dirty trick
there was a house foreign affairs committee hearing on june 14, 2016 8 days after Natalia Veselnitskaya cold-contacted Trump's son
at that hearing Natalia Veselnitskaya was sitting with Obama’s Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul along with Emin Agalarov who helped set up the meeting with Veselnitskaya.

Veselnitskaya was also connected to Fusion GPS, the DNC opposition research firm that produced the fraudulent and discredited Trump Dossier (the one where they claimed that hookers urinated on trump)

Curiousor and Curiousor – Natalia Veselnitskaya Pictured With Obama Officals in DC on June 14th, 2016…

youtube of the hearing
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 6:33 am

and let's not forget that infamous dossier,

Democrats intentionally used disinformation from Russia to attack Trump, campaign aides
“If anyone colluded with the Russians, it was the Democrats,” said a former Trump campaign adviser who asked not to be identified because of the pending investigations. “After all, they’ve routinely shopped around false claims from the debunked Steele dossier, which listed sources including senior Kremlin officials. If anyone should be investigated in Washington, it ought to be Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Mark Warner and their staffers.”
 
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list1
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 8:13 am

and let's not forget that infamous dossier,

Democrats intentionally used disinformation from Russia to attack Trump, campaign aides
“If anyone colluded with the Russians, it was the Democrats,” said a former Trump campaign adviser who asked not to be identified because of the pending investigations. “After all, they’ve routinely shopped around false claims from the debunked Steele dossier, which listed sources including senior Kremlin officials. If anyone should be investigated in Washington, it ought to be Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Mark Warner and their staffers.”
Everything what is going in USA looks unfortunately like an very old Hollywood  movie. First, Democrats talk about about Russians that read Democrat Party Headquarter computers. Director FBI said then that Russian did not changed voters choice and Trump is Americans choice. As far as election choice could not be assigned to Russian Democrats switched their attention to a single fact that Putin read a secret non public urity information on their computers. It has been called meddling. It was very strange that knowing about Russian excess to Democrats computers Obama and his people who responsible for security of election process who got such information from FBI did not do nothing to prevent invasion. Obama even did not has been asked about such fact during investigation. AS far as Putin denied this fact in his meeting with Trump during G-20 it looks like there is no fact that confirm the real facts of meddling. On the other hand Obama was president at that time as well as FBI was the primary organization responsible for security of the election but investigation is spinning around Trump. Now last couple days all problems with computers are pulled back and investigation goes to contact to Russian attorney whom are prescribed to be connected to Russian Government without again  to a fact. She is working legally in Washington and hence any contact with here is legal. I recall that after Clinton's second election it was information in USA media that he received money for his president campaign directly from China. It was not any investigation of the fact. 
Russian was become primary problem after they meddling in Syria conflict. As Obama said the primary goal of the conflict is Assad, who is allovit but majority in Syria are sunni and this is why he should leave his presidency. Allies of USA and NATO for a long time was Al Qaeda and during Syrian campaign was appeared ISIS who were an ally of the USA and NATO. It is quite clear that Russian meddling in Syria helps USA and Iraqis to take Mosul as far as Russians kill and took a lot of ISIS forces for themselves. As a consequence of Democrats political activity in Syria there are millions refugees in Europe and no one has not paid attention to a source of the refugees problem. 
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 8:50 am

I recall that after Clinton's second election it was information in USA media that he received money for his president campaign directly from China. It was not any investigation of the fact. 
indeed, for example
algore and the Temple of Cash
where algore attended a fundraiser ($1,000 to $5,000 a head) at a buddhist temple
aside from the issue that a temple of any religion holding political fundraisers should lose their tax-exempt status, there was the issue of how monks who had taken a vow of poverty could make large donations to clinton-gore, and the answer was that china gave the monks the money and the monks in turn gave it to clinton-gore

as list1 said, there was never a proper investigation of chinagate
(wiki)
Congressional investigations
With regard to their overall efficacy, investigators are on record as having stated that the Congressional investigations were hamstrung due to lack of co-operation of witnesses. Ninety-four people either refused to be questioned, pled the Fifth Amendment, or left the country altogether.
(snip)
Calls for an independent counsel
President Clinton's FBI Director Louis Freeh wrote in a 22-page memorandum to then Attorney General Janet Reno in November 1997 that "It is difficult to imagine a more compelling situation for appointing an independent counsel."
In July 1998, the Justice Department's campaign finance task force head, Charles La Bella, sent a report to Janet Reno also recommending she seek an independent counsel to investigate alleged fund-raising abuses by Democratic party officials. The media reported that La Bella believed there was clearly an appearance of a conflict of interest by Reno. In his report to Reno he wrote: " [A] pattern [of events] suggests a level of knowledge within the White House—including the President's and First Lady's offices—concerning the injection of foreign funds into the reelection effort." Additionally, La Bella stated: "If these allegations involved anyone other than the president, vice president, senior White House or DNC and Clinton-Gore '96 officials, an appropriate investigation would have commenced months ago without hesitation."

Robert Conrad, Jr., who later became head of the task force, called on Reno in Spring 2000 to appoint an independent counsel to look into the fund-raising practices of Vice President Gore.

Janet Reno declined all requests:
"I try to do one thing: what's right. I am trying to follow the independent counsel statute as it has been framed by Congress. If you had a lower threshold, then any time somebody said 'boo' about a covered person, you'd trigger the independent counsel statute — Janet Reno, December 4, 1997."

A CNN/TIME poll taken in May 1998 found 58 percent of Americans felt an independent counsel should have been appointed to investigate the controversy. Thirty-three percent were opposed. The same poll found that 47 percent of Americans believed a quid pro quo existed between the Clinton administration and the PRC government.

Criticism of investigation
In addition to partisan complaints from Republicans, columnists Charles Krauthammer, William Safire, and Morton Kondracke, as well as a number of FBI agents, suggested the investigations into the fund-raising controversies (which some dubbed Chinagate) were willfully impeded.

FBI agent Ivian Smith wrote a letter to FBI Director Freeh that expressed "a lack of confidence" in the Justice Department's attorneys regarding the fund-raising investigation. He wrote: "I am convinced the team at... [the Department of Justice] leading this investigation is, at best, simply not up to the task... The impression left is the emphasis on how not to prosecute matters, not how to aggressively conduct investigations leading to prosecutions." Smith and three other FBI agents later testified before Congress in late 1999 that Justice Department prosecutors impeded their inquiry. FBI agent Daniel Wehr told Congress that the first head U.S. attorney in the investigation, Laura Ingersoll, told the agents they should "not pursue any matter related to solicitation of funds for access to the president. The reason given was, 'That's the way the American political process works.' I was scandalized by that," Wehr said. The four FBI agents also said that Ingersoll prevented them from executing search warrants to stop destruction of evidence and micromanaged the case beyond all reason.

FBI agents were also denied the opportunity to ask President Clinton and Vice President Gore questions during Justice Department interviews in 1997 and 1998 and were only allowed to take notes. During the interviews, neither Clinton nor Gore were asked any questions about fund-raisers John Huang, James Riady, nor the Hsi Lai Buddhist Temple fund-raising event led by Maria Hsia and attended by John Huang and Ted Sioeng.
 
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Gamal
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 10:16 am

99
 
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ppauper
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 11:18 am

First, Democrats talk about about Russians that read Democrat Party Headquarter computers.
julian assange has said that wikileaks did not get the DNC documents from Russia, and has strongly hinted that their source was Seth Rich, a DNC staffer who was murdered in mysterious circumstances. A lot of Bernie supporters were upset that Hillary "cheated" in the primaries (for example, she was told the debate questions ahead of time)
Assange To Hannity: Source For WikiLeaks Was Not Russian Government
 
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Alan
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 2:15 pm

99
Exactly!

Trump Teased 'Major' News on Clinton Hours after Don Jr Set Meeting on Russia Dirt
"What did the President know and when did he know it?" - Howard Baker (1973)
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 3:21 pm

 
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Alan
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Re: Trump -- the last 100 days

July 12th, 2017, 7:59 pm

Graham grills FBI nominee over Russia
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