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Cuchulainn
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News from the 'Border'

July 13th, 2018, 4:11 pm

This is where it will all happen. Next week and beyond I will be investigating. Post your questions here.
At least you will get uptodate news, not like the fake news from some quarters here ...
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ppauper
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 13th, 2018, 7:48 pm


At least you will get uptodate news, not like the fake news from some quarters here ...
I'm glad someone else noticed!
Trump in an interview with the Sun today (presumably with somebody from the page 3 department): "I'm just saying I think he would be a great prime minister," Trump said. "I think he's got what it takes, and I think he's got the right attitude to be a great prime minister."


Not to mention the hair... This is after going along with the Infowars line on his hostess' approach to Brexit.

Trump’s Got The Tapes — Says SUN Interview Is ‘Fake News’
 
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bearish
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Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: News from the 'Border'

July 13th, 2018, 11:08 pm

Wow -- forget about Trump (we know he lies most of the time), we now have to make a call on the relative veracity of The Sun and The Daily Caller. I'd say they're both crap, but give the benefit of the doubt to those who actually have the recorded interview.
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 6:12 am

Wow -- forget about Trump (we know he lies most of the time), we now have to make a call on the relative veracity of The Sun and The Daily Caller. I'd say they're both crap, but give the benefit of the doubt to those who actually have the recorded interview.
Since President Trump actually has the recorded interview, that makes bearish the pusher of fake news.
 
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ppauper
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 6:24 am

so cuch, what do you propose for the north-south border in ireland?

I can think of several options:
(a) Eire rejoins the UK. The majority in Eire don't want that
(b) Ulster joins Eire. The majority in Ulster don't want that
(c) the UK stays in the EU. The majority in the UK don't want that
 
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bearish
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Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 10:11 am

Wow -- forget about Trump (we know he lies most of the time), we now have to make a call on the relative veracity of The Sun and The Daily Caller. I'd say they're both crap, but give the benefit of the doubt to those who actually have the recorded interview.
Since President Trump actually has the recorded interview, that makes bearish the pusher of fake news.
So, you honestly think that the proof that Trump was not lying is another Trump lie? If he’s “got the tape” all he needs to do to show that the Sun printed fake news is to release it. But we know that’s never going to happen.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 5:26 pm

so cuch, what do you propose for the north-south border in ireland?

I can think of several options:
(a) Eire rejoins the UK. The majority in Eire don't want that
(b) Ulster joins Eire. The majority in Ulster don't want that
(c) the UK stays in the EU. The majority in the UK don't want that
None of the above. Your conclusions are not accurate. As I said, you are getting sloppy again. 
(d) The Six Countries remain in EU economic region. + the border in the Irish Sea.

BTW 'Ulster' consists of 9 counties.

Do you still use the word 'Eire' over there?  How quaint. The official state name is "Ireland". 
 
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ppauper
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 8:08 pm

(d) The Six Countries remain in EU economic region. + the border in the Irish Sea.
What exactly does that mean?
The EU has external tariffs. Would tariffs be levied on goods moving from England/Scotland/Wales to Northern Ireland?
The answer is either "yes" or "no"

If "yes", then Northern Ireland would no longer be part of the United Kingdom customs union, which was a key part of the 1800 Act of Union
Article VI created a customs union, with the exception that customs duties on certain British and Irish goods passing between the two countries would remain for 10 years (a consequence of having trade depressed by the ongoing war with revolutionary France).

This would substantially weaken the ties between northern ireland and the rest of the UK and the majority in northern ireland would not agree to it

If "no" then the rest of the UK would de facto belong to the EU customs union because with no border between northern ireland and eire goods could be shipped from england to northern ireland and then on to eire duty free.
 
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bearish
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 14th, 2018, 8:32 pm

Some very skillful politicians and diplomats manufactured 20+ years of relative peace in Northern Ireland. One of David Cameron's legacies looks to be the end of that. 
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 10:04 am

(d) The Six Countries remain in EU economic region. + the border in the Irish Sea.
What exactly does that mean?
The EU has external tariffs. Would tariffs be levied on goods moving from England/Scotland/Wales to Northern Ireland?
The answer is either "yes" or "no"

If "yes", then Northern Ireland would no longer be part of the United Kingdom customs union, which was a key part of the 1800 Act of Union
Article VI created a customs union, with the exception that customs duties on certain British and Irish goods passing between the two countries would remain for 10 years (a consequence of having trade depressed by the ongoing war with revolutionary France).
 
This would substantially weaken the ties between northern ireland and the rest of the UK and the majority in northern ireland would not agree to it

If "no" then the rest of the UK would de facto belong to the EU customs union because with no border between northern ireland and eire goods could be shipped from england to northern ireland and then on to eire duty free.
I am impressed with your knowledge of Wikipedia.
We've had 700 years of 'laws' like this. Many were passed by threats and bribery. They failed. Most without the consent of the majority. 
Back to 2018; NI majority want to stay in EU (it's the economy, stupid). 

BREXIT is more about nostalgia than anything else. Just listen to what politicians and former journalists are spewing. (e.g. save 350 mln per week)
 
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TinMan
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 10:22 am

Some very skillful politicians and diplomats manufactured 20+ years of relative peace in Northern Ireland. One of David Cameron's legacies looks to be the end of that. 
Depends what you mean by "an end to that".  If it means a return to murdering people, the fault lies with the people doing it, nobody else.
 
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TinMan
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 10:30 am

Do you still use the word 'Eire' over there?  How quaint. The official state name is "Ireland".
The Irish passport uses Eire too.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 11:08 am

Do you still use the word 'Eire' over there?  How quaint. The official state name is "Ireland".
The Irish passport uses Eire too.
Well spotted. Actually, it's Éire but let's not quibble. Personally, I would have preferred the old script we learned at skool.

Image
 
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bearish
Posts: 6297
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 6:05 pm

Some very skillful politicians and diplomats manufactured 20+ years of relative peace in Northern Ireland. One of David Cameron's legacies looks to be the end of that.

Depends what you mean by "an end to that".  If it means a return to murdering people, the fault lies with the people doing it, nobody else.
The business of war is killing people. There is a credible argument that many people on both sides of that particular conflict perceived themselves as being at war, and that the Belfast Agreement brought an end to that war. Or, at least a long lasting truce. Now maybe, just maybe, people have got used to the idea of not killing each other as being normal, but I wouldn't want to bet too much on it.
 
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TinMan
Posts: 613
Joined: September 21st, 2006, 9:42 am

Re: News from the 'Border'

July 15th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Some very skillful politicians and diplomats manufactured 20+ years of relative peace in Northern Ireland. One of David Cameron's legacies looks to be the end of that.

Depends what you mean by "an end to that".  If it means a return to murdering people, the fault lies with the people doing it, nobody else.
The business of war is killing people. There is a credible argument that many people on both sides of that particular conflict perceived themselves as being at war, and that the Belfast Agreement brought an end to that war. Or, at least a long lasting truce. Now maybe, just maybe, people have got used to the idea of not killing each other as being normal, but I wouldn't want to bet too much on it.
Maybe. But my point is, that if someones reaction to uncertainty around the logistics of the Irish border is to murder someone, the fault lies 100% with them.
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