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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 9:18 am

 
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ISayMoo
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 10:09 am

On the ethics of a no-deal Brexit: https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/c ... p/1067523/
"Opinion: a no-deal Brexit is fundamentally morally wrong since it cannot be justified to everyone on grounds that no one could reasonably reject"

This is an impossibly high standard to meet, which is almost never used in politics (liberum veto didn't work well for Poland-Lithuania). It certainly wasn't used when the UK joined the EC (there were plenty people who objected) or when it went to war with Iraq in 2003. And, of course, by "everyone" they really mean "everyone in the usual media / academia / elite circle"...

"Perhaps the only certainty about Brexit is that there is a great deal of uncertainty about the outcome of a no-deal Brexit. Taking this uncertainty seriously demands that we consider all possible outcomes, both negative and positive, and of these possible outcomes we ought to prioritize potential negative consequences. As the moral maxim primum non nocere reminds us, above all our moral duty is to do no harm."

There's always uncertainty in politics. There is uncertainty when you decide to go to war, when you decide to join a trading bloc, or when you decide to admit a new member to the trading bloc or political alliance you're in. But somehow the "primum non nocere" argument is only trotted out when someone argues against the UK leaving the EU.

This is article is an exercise in hypocrisy masquerading as ethics, IMHO.
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 10:10 am

Have you really read that? (I didn't.)
Last edited by katastrofa on August 10th, 2019, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 11:01 am

So the Irish people got betrayed by the Irish elites. Correct?
Focus, please which century are you talking about? 1798-1800?
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ISayMoo
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 11:13 am

So the Irish people got betrayed by the Irish elites. Correct?
Focus, please which century are you talking about? 1798-1800?
Around that time, yes. It's a common pattern of colonisation: co-opt the local elites and use them to subjugate the rest of the population. What happened in Scotland, in India...
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 11:59 am

So the Irish people got betrayed by the Irish elites. Correct?
Focus, please which century are you talking about? 1798-1800?
Around that time, yes. It's a common pattern of colonisation: co-opt the local elites and use them to subjugate the rest of the population. What happened in Scotland, in India...
Its's a bit more nuanced than that but accurate non the less ..just look at the DUP!
In this case, the 'elites' as you called them were educated Irish  Presbyterians (many of them graduates of Trinity College) who revolted against English Rule in 1798 (Thomas Moore wrote Minstrel Boy which was subsequently hijacked by the Yankee armies). Catholics at the time had no vote. Furthermore, Catholic emancipation was being discussed in Great Britain, and fears that a newly enfranchised Catholic majority would drastically change the character of the Irish government and parliament also contributed to a desire from London to merge the parliaments

The Scots also had an Act of Union in 1707.. How much history is taught in Scottish schools?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17353 ... -of-union/
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bearish
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 12:41 pm

On the ethics of a no-deal Brexit: https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/c ... p/1067523/
I wouldn’t take the opinion of one academic philosopher too seriously, and I really don’t think he argued his case terribly well. While there ought to be some ethical (or moral) foundations for politics, it seems hopelessly naive to believe them to be universal. Brexit is just a remarkably bungled political project, where a majority in the democratically elected House of Commons is opposed to the sole objective of the (not quite so democratically elected) prime minister and his (entirely unelected) sidekick Dominic Cummings. I don’t think it will end well.
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 1:29 pm

It didn't come from anywhere good either, I'm thinking sometimes. The British acted as if they wanted to be but not to be in the EU [long boring soliloquy]. The EU top brass attitudes didn't help. I think a new branch of science, "psychopolitology", could be created to study the whole story :-)
 
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Paul
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 4:28 pm

On the ethics of a no-deal Brexit: https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/c ... e.ie/amp//
I wouldn’t take the opinion of one academic philosopher too seriously, and I really don’t think he argued his case terribly well.
The opening sentence has a quintuple negative! I have a problem with even double negatives, it’s like speaking to a lawyer. It’s also like adjusting a ball-cock. Do you know what I mean? You want to stop water rising too high so do you adjust the ball-cock up or down? Maybe only I see the connection.
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 5:57 pm

On the ethics of a no-deal Brexit: https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/c ... e.ie/amp//
I wouldn’t take the opinion of one academic philosopher too seriously, and I really don’t think he argued his case terribly well.
The opening sentence has a quintuple negative! I have a problem with even double negatives, it’s like speaking to a lawyer. It’s also like adjusting a ball-cock. Do you know what I mean? You want to stop water rising too high so do you adjust the ball-cock up or down? Maybe only I see the connection.
How often do you flood your home?
 
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Paul
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 6:51 pm

There was the time I tried plumbing. I think I've mentioned before that I have a 97% success rate with joints. Turns out that anything less than 100% is problematic. Then there was the time I ran out of dishwasher tabs so used a liquid detergent instead. I'd definitely recommend that if you are at a loose end. It's fun, dramatic, and not dangerous, and will keep you occupied for quite a long time. 
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 10th, 2019, 7:48 pm

I was actually suspecting that the toilet cistern with the ball-cock valve must have leaked many times. They cover in scale very fast in London's hard water. That's how I befriended one of my neighbours (thankfully I'm moving out). When I opened the cistern to fix the leak and saw the mysterious red balloon inside, I took photos and sent to my grandpa. He said that it was ancient. Now I have Australian double-flush siphon :-) (Ha! I also have an Australian brother-in-law! I have to tell him that he's not the only Australian in my life!)
 
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Paul
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 11th, 2019, 5:17 pm

We could easily fill a thread with toilets around the world. The different ball-cocks, sucking versus blowing (not sure about the terminology), bottom warmers, "observation decks," hose pipes and water jugs, holes in the ground (which way are you supposed to crouch? I've never figured that out), urinals and their etiquette. 

I used to explain Halton Sequences using urinal etiquette as an analogy. But no longer in these sensitive times. I don't think any of my analogies are still legal.
 
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bearish
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 11th, 2019, 6:36 pm

Maybe it is time to switch from analogies to digitalis? 
 
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katastrofa
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Re: Brexit - the last 50 days

August 13th, 2019, 8:33 pm

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