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ikicker
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 5:02 pm

@bearish "at most a couple of GOP senators will vote for that regardless of evidence presented," as opposed to Dems who would vote before any evidence is presented! I am keen to see who will vote against party lines. Personally I think the evidence (that I've seen) is weak, so it's the Dems I'll be watching.

@trackstar "an important nod to the world"! Who on Earth thinks that such a nod is necessary?!! The nods are needed by the US. And I'm sure that the stimulus checks will be highly appreciated. However we are talking about a country where they'd rather lose body parts than have a free health service, so who knows?
Personally, I think its important to remember that two thirds vote is required to convict in the Senate and right now it is 50-50 split with the Vice President as a tie breaker. A substantial number of Republicans would need to vote with the Democrats for there to even be a shot at a conviction, but over the last week Republican resolve on fighting impeachment has strengthened - at least from what I have been reading.

Mitch McConnel and Chuck Schumer are going to accept the articles of impeachment as they expressed in the past week, but that is on poor legal ground. The entire impeachment process is subject to judicial review, as always:
  • Alan Dershowitz believes that the House of Representatives violated the constitution at least 6 times while attempting to impeach the president: “They violated the free speech provision. They violated the impeachment criteria. They violated the bill of attainder. They violated due process, on and on and on.”
  • Not to mention their attempts to pressure Mike Pence into invoking the 25th Amendment, to which Mike Pence responded that would violate the constitution as the 25th Ammendment is not an alternative to impeachment.
  • In regards to the issue as to whether or not it is constitutionally sound to impeach a president after he leaves office, the strongest argument for that is that impeachment existed in Britain and there is contextual evidence as to how that should be interpreted. However, the counter argument is that no president in US history has been impeached after leaving office and the normal interpretation has no relationship to British Common law. The argument could easily by made that that if our founding fathers had wanted presidents to be impeachable after leaving office they would have written that in.
----
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 5:12 pm

ImageThose Republicans should grow a pair.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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Paul
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 8:40 pm

How is the Free Speech Union doing these days? Ready to help in the Great Battle of San Jose?
Extremely well, I believe! 
I have even been asked for membership details from a person on this very forum who has experienced banning (not here, obvs!) because of his or her saying something harmless! I bet you weren't expecting that response!
 
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Paul
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 8:45 pm

@bearish "at most a couple of GOP senators will vote for that regardless of evidence presented," as opposed to Dems who would vote before any evidence is presented! I am keen to see who will vote against party lines. Personally I think the evidence (that I've seen) is weak, so it's the Dems I'll be watching.

@trackstar "an important nod to the world"! Who on Earth thinks that such a nod is necessary?!! The nods are needed by the US. And I'm sure that the stimulus checks will be highly appreciated. However we are talking about a country where they'd rather lose body parts than have a free health service, so who knows?

Well - this is a funny case where most of the crimes were televised live
And the accused wasn't wearing a mask like even the most amateurish burglar!
 
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Paul
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 8:48 pm

@bearish "at most a couple of GOP senators will vote for that regardless of evidence presented," as opposed to Dems who would vote before any evidence is presented! I am keen to see who will vote against party lines. Personally I think the evidence (that I've seen) is weak, so it's the Dems I'll be watching.

@trackstar "an important nod to the world"! Who on Earth thinks that such a nod is necessary?!! The nods are needed by the US. And I'm sure that the stimulus checks will be highly appreciated. However we are talking about a country where they'd rather lose body parts than have a free health service, so who knows?
Personally, I think its important to remember that two thirds vote is required to convict in the Senate and right now it is 50-50 split with the Vice President as a tie breaker. A substantial number of Republicans would need to vote with the Democrats for there to even be a shot at a conviction, but over the last week Republican resolve on fighting impeachment has strengthened - at least from what I have been reading.

Mitch McConnel and Chuck Schumer are going to accept the articles of impeachment as they expressed in the past week, but that is on poor legal ground. The entire impeachment process is subject to judicial review, as always:
  • Alan Dershowitz believes that the House of Representatives violated the constitution at least 6 times while attempting to impeach the president: “They violated the free speech provision. They violated the impeachment criteria. They violated the bill of attainder. They violated due process, on and on and on.”
  • Not to mention their attempts to pressure Mike Pence into invoking the 25th Amendment, to which Mike Pence responded that would violate the constitution as the 25th Ammendment is not an alternative to impeachment.
  • In regards to the issue as to whether or not it is constitutionally sound to impeach a president after he leaves office, the strongest argument for that is that impeachment existed in Britain and there is contextual evidence as to how that should be interpreted. However, the counter argument is that no president in US history has been impeached after leaving office and the normal interpretation has no relationship to British Common law. The argument could easily by made that that if our founding fathers had wanted presidents to be impeachable after leaving office they would have written that in.
The 50-50 split should be irrelevant. It should be about evidence. If it splits down party lines then the US is corrupt at the highest level.

I know nothing about the legality of impeachment.
 
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trackstar
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:05 pm

On the Free Speech front, I am looking to see how the FSU matches up with things like the ACLU over here.

Cancel culture seems very negative with no upside to me. As I've said before, "Let 100 flowers bloom." Of course if you know the origins of that quote, it's ironic.

One problem with analyzing the tech industry actions after Jan 6 and their consequences is that there is no control set. We don't know what would have happened otherwise.  Likewise National Guard presence. What if the powers that be in DC hadn't reacted to threats, overreacted, whatever it seems like to any of us, as observers? In any case, they did call the NG into to assert control, and the inauguration took place outside in fresh air, with no incidents. 

Curious to have anyone's thoughts on that. 

Edit: Also, stay tuned, I imagine that there will be many hearings and some kind of new tech & social media platform policies coming out of all this that try to strike a better balance than simply pulling the plug on 1,000s of users. At least one would imagine so.
Last edited by trackstar on January 25th, 2021, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images. - Guy Debord
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:17 pm

For 250 quid Gold members get a monthly Skype with a Director!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH7zhpCeAHs

BTW where is FSU registered?
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:27 pm

On the Free Speech front, I am looking to see how the FSU matches up with things like the ACLU over here.
Here's recent update

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/08/alt- ... ic-racism/

revolting students Free Speech Youth Advisory Board, 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/ ... nded-group
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 25th, 2021, 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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trackstar
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:31 pm

For 250 quid Gold members get a monthly Skype with a Director!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH7zhpCeAHs

BTW where is FSU registered?
Seems to be UK: Free Speech Union

I was teasing Paul a little when I asked if they were getting ready for Battle of San Jose (that is the heart of Silicon Valley, for those who don't know Cali.)

Still, this is important stuff - big upheavals in tech world - and different from the past data privacy and security discussions, which were the normal reason that FB et al were being called to give testimony to Congress.  Europe has stronger data and privacy protections than US, as you may know. For a long time, US users have been guinea pigs and data mines more or less free for the taking and little to no transparency and/or notification.
The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images. - Guy Debord
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:41 pm

I don't know what Paul sees in him.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 9:46 pm

Back to work for me, but here is one current pointer on the Data Privacy issue:

How 2020 Has Changed the Data Privacy Landscape - InfoSecurity December 9, 2020

This may wind up intersecting with the free speech arguments because users had their data taken from them/deleted by the platforms, even though the platforms maintain the right to moderate content.  We'll see how it plays out - going to be a busy year for cyber-lawyers. 

And here is the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union), for comparison. 
The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images. - Guy Debord
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 10:00 pm

I don't know what Paul sees in him.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 10:14 pm

One interesting challenge though - the ACLU leans to the left, historically, so need to look around and see about other advocacy orgs that are either neutral or lean right.  
Or will we see left-leaning civil rights lawyers defending the right to protest of far right wing activists?  
A lot of stuff got stirred up over here in December and January! 
"May you live in the most interesting of times." - ancient Chinese curse. 
(Even worse than having too many servants!)

Here is a tricky poll I just devised:

Looking at a number of flags, which ones should it be legal to burn in public?

__ BLM flag
__ Confederate flag
__ Don't Tread on Me flag (yellow flag with defiant snake emblem)
__ American flag
__ Union Jack
__ Any flag - no restrictions.
__ No flags - no exceptions.
__ Game of Thrones flags (haha!)

 
GOT flags.jpg
Hell no, people on left and right would say. Not GOT flags!
The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images. - Guy Debord
 
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Paul
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 11:22 pm

Edit: Also, stay tuned, I imagine that there will be many hearings and some kind of new tech & social media platform policies coming out of all this that try to strike a better balance than simply pulling the plug on 1,000s of users. At least one would imagine so.
Why? FATGA are all Democrats. They aren't keen on privacy, freedom,...

EU/GDPR is very anti-business. 
Or will we see left-leaning civil rights lawyers defending the right to protest of far right wing activists?
No. However, any lawyer taking up such a defence would be guaranteed to be immortalized in a Netflix movie.

ACLU very left leaning.

And I'd let people burn any flag they desire. 
 
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Re: Biden and Harris - the first 100 days

January 25th, 2021, 11:50 pm



Why? FATGA are all Democrats. They aren't keen on privacy, freedom,...

EU/GDPR is very anti-business. 
Or will we see left-leaning civil rights lawyers defending the right to protest of far right wing activists?
No. However, any lawyer taking up such a defence would be guaranteed to be immortalized in a Netflix movie.

ACLU very left leaning.

And I'd let people burn any flag they desire. 
Re: FATGA - because this has been a growing area for litigation and public policy work, even before these recent events. 

Free speech or censorship? Social media litigation is a hot legal battleground - ABA Journal April 1, 2019
Good article, and just one example from ABA (American Bar Association).

Just one excerpt:

"In the landmark free-press/libel decision New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964), Justice William Brennan wrote that there is a “profound national commitment that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials.”"

Burn 'em if you got 'em!  (But leave your AK-15s and pipe bombs at home, thank you.)
The spectacle is not a collection of images, but a social relation among people, mediated by images. - Guy Debord