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Re: The vaccines

January 1st, 2022, 10:28 pm

better scaled up medical system could have reduced risk and make more people follow advices, as more trust.

Norway health authorities (FHI) in general has been much more sensible than many other countries, part of reason why higher trust. For example they give covid passes to people that have gone through infection (even zero vaxed and half vaxed), as multiple published research indicate good immunity also in this group. Not try to get covid, but if one had it why not take into account the research on immunity as Norway basically do, also Switzerland I think. Do USA do this? How do you get best trust from people? Be more about information and less about pushing I think.

dictatorish style do not cause trust... like "Harsh treatment of the non-vaccinated, on the other hand - please bring it on! "   don't remember if that was said by the all knowing leader or just a blind follower  :D
 
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bearish
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Re: The vaccines

January 1st, 2022, 11:47 pm

Well, as you probably know, “USA” does not recognize the idea of a Covid pass. Certain states do, but their rules vary. Regardless, Republicans are rabidly against any such notion, since that’s like having to identify themselves to the government, like in nazi Germany. And they have guns, so should be safe anyway. As for the non-vaccinated (with the exception of a few medically excused cases), fuck’em!
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 12:06 am

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

"People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01089-8

"These data show that children developed higher antibody binding to SARS-CoV-2 VOC after natural infection compared to adults but displayed similar neutralizing ability."

And many more. Health authorities should encourage more non vaxed symptom free, to get for example IgG tested to free up urgent test capacity. If they not have any symptoms this can be done at general practioneers, it will free up more test capacity for people actually thinking they have or at risk of having active covid. It will also free up vaccine dosages to people around the world.

"fuck’em!" u have got very Americanized, find your cross country skiis and take a trip for example in New Paltz, nice area of your state. Bring bear spray just in case! don't be afraid of covid just because u see a few others in the slope..

Actually even Norwegian health authorities gives out little stats on non vaxed that already had covid. Recently one of largest (or largest) hospital in Norway was contacted they confirmed zero of their covid-19 patients hade been through covid-19 before, so this group took up zero of their covid-19 capacity. Sure u will find exceptions on larger scale, but little doubt: gone through covid-19 gives reasonable protection. Still I would not go to super spreader events as Paul...
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 12:13 am

sure gone through covid-19 + vaccines likely best protection, but why would a country be so egoistic to vaccinate people with already decent immunity (from gone through covid-19) before helping rest of world? Ego maniacs? 

'“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”'

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

Naturally not try to get infected to get immunity, but many have already been through infection many even with hardly any symptoms, offer them such as IgG test (testing for past infection), this can free up resources and make people more knowledgeable who needs to be extra careful etc., get more effective in fighting covid. 
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 2:27 am

sure gone through covid-19 + vaccines likely best protection, but why would a country be so egoistic to vaccinate people with already decent immunity (from gone through covid-19) before helping rest of world? Ego maniacs? 
Actually it's apparently a matter of deployment capabilities in a lot of the world: Pfizers' vaccine is supposed to be stored at -70° C, for example, which is not readily doable in most of the third world. I believe South Africa has turned away offered vaccine doses because they knew they wouldn't be able to get them injected before they went bad.
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 12:38 pm

They cld natural have done this almost from start, had more vaccine available for risk groups early on in own countries (by letting for example people that thought they already had Covid be easily tested IgG and other tests). Further J&J vaccine is it still used in USA, what do CDC says about it?

"The vaccine is estimated to remain stable for two years at -4°F (-20°C), and a maximum of three months at routine refrigeration". 

"Store unpunctured multi-dose vials of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine at 36°F to 46°F (2°C to 8°C) and protect from light"

https://www.in.gov/health/immunization/files/Janssen-COVID-19-Vaccine-EUA-Launch-Storage,-Dosing,-and-Administration-Guide.pdf

"They knew they wouldn't be able to get them injected before they went bad." they don't have refrigerators? at least all my friends in Cape Town have so... okay I see they where not offered likely this vaccines (J&J), why not, do they find them too risky for blood cloth perhaps?  Health authorities in Norway has been quite sceptical to this and AZ vaccine.


I think most countries can have some refrigerators, if not I am sure there exist suppliers. 
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 1:13 pm

Norway dropped quickly AZ due to what health authorities claimed was increased blood cloth risk etc.. Health authorities where very sceptical to Jansen vaccine here, but still let it through, but very few wants this vaccine here. Almost all our AZ we shipped to poor nations, we are an extremely helpful and kind nation (just ask the top politicians and they will confirm)

Norway has donated almost 700,000 corona vaccine doses to poorer nations

AZ "Maximum shelf life is 6 months stored in a refrigerator between 2 to 8°C"

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/norway-will-not-use-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-says-daily-vg-2021-05-12/

There is no good excuse not to give people already had covid-19 (non vaxed or 1/3 vaxed, 2/3 vaxed, 1/4 vaxed etc.) covid passes and free up dosages and help poor nations...to get control of pandemics is not just a local problem if one want to have at least partly open boarders.
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 3:13 pm

"We have 158 days' stock in the country at current use," a spokesman for the Health Ministry said. "We have deferred some deliveries."
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/ex ... 021-11-24/
Apparently in South Africa the reason for supply exceeding demand is "vaccine hesitancy" rather than delivery issues; SA stalled out at 35% vaccinated.
Is there any good excuse for someone who should know better emphasizing the rare bad effects of vaccines to the exclusion of noting that they strongly reduce both susceptibility to the disease and the severity of the disease when contracted? This is a disease that seems to have a mortality rate of around 2% among the untreated, after all -- does that count for anything?
I mean, if vaccination rates were in the 90% range, yes, it might be worthwhile to make sure that everyone knows they're not a completely free lunch.
But with vaccination rates topping out around 70% in the many of most advanced places in the world, and apparently under 40% in a lot of other places ... what good excuse is there for continually harping on the schoolteacher in West Virginia who was mistakenly given a speedball instead of the vaccine and ignoring all these fun stories?
I'm trying to think of a good reason for it, but I get nothing.
What have you got, Espen?
 
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Alan
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 3:20 pm

Sorry to interject, but was posting this at the same time. 
An interesting new metric that may lead "case levels" by about 4 days: covid RNA in wastewater.
sewers.jpg
Wastewater levels of Covid-19 in the Boston area as measured by Biobot Analytics. Source: Massachusetts Water Resources Authority

Past research suggests virus spikes in wastewater precede spikes in clinical cases by four to ten days, she said, though those studies predate vaccines. “The data might look scary but we’re prepared,” she said.
Source: Bloomberg

So, whatever you do, stay out of the sewers!
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 8:11 pm

I just note Norwegian health authorities  seems very reasonable compared to many other countries even if they also could do considerably better, blocked AZ vaccine quickly (but not quickly enough), give covid passes to people gone through Covid-19, not matter if non vaxed, 1/3 vaxed or 2/3 vaxed. Face mask requirements in most towns have been much up to judgment calls, if can keep distance no need etc.   >72% vaccination rate, culture of taking D vit (not a cure but much research indicate preventive against severe Covid-19, but time will show how many passed peer review based on bad stats), we know groups that health authorities knew where often much more low in D also before pandemic got hit much harder, (sure could be many reasons, but risk reward indicate one should use more of toolbox)

Norway death per million so far 238. I would say in general very relaxed rules (fully vaccinated 72.8%)
Sweden death per million so far 1,498 (fully vaccinated 71.3%) (according to medical professor Oslo: Sweden abandoned tran culture (d vitamin supplement fish liver oil many years ago, could have nothing to do with it, or perhaps something, clearly also other obvious factors here, look into it.)
Italy death per million so far  1,319 with very strict rules   (fully vaccinated 75.1%)
German death per million 1,341 with very strict rules  (fully vaccinated 71.1%)
USA death per million  2,537 (fully vaccinated 62%)

My point is there seems to be more to this than just vaccines, so use the full toolbox if want good results. Not just screaming over and over what everyone have heard 50 times). 
 
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bearish
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Re: The vaccines

January 2nd, 2022, 11:55 pm

I think that is a fair assessment. Norway had a nasty December omicron spike but, unless holiday counting problems are at work, that’s coming down fast. Of course, as somebody said about requirements for social distancing: I sure wish we can get away from this one meter thing and return to the normal five meters!
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 3rd, 2022, 3:03 pm

Screenshot 2022-01-03 at 15.58.03.png
Comments on stat etc welcome:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34492624/

I have just looked very quickly at it now, so not sure if stats of good or bad quality in this paper (in medicine papers one never know before study them carefully), but yes Norway and Finland very low covid deaths. Finland increased fortification of D in food significantly some time back (before covid, flue dropped dramatically there even before covid after this from what I remember). Norway has the tran culture that has strengthen during covid, in particular because one of largest university hospitals indicated few taking tran where in hospitals, they where trying to do much larger sample study than their initially group but not sure how it went.

Sweden and Norway very similar in many ways, but as Oslo professor in med has told they quitted tran culture very long time ago.

Also I find it funny when people think in warmer countries less D deficiency...not necessarily at all as people have developed with their culture over time etc. 

What is so wrong with the risk reward of getting population out of D vit deficiency? One can sure find much studies that individullay are weak or even crap, but the overall picture is for me giving a strong indication, it has done so for almost 2 years at least...
 
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Re: The vaccines

January 3rd, 2022, 4:10 pm

another bad paper based on stats, way to few data points (the country points, not the massive data behind each point), still I find it interesting why Norway and Finland do so much better than "comparable" countries in Vaccine % etc. But one should be very careful to predict in beginning or middle (or close to end?) of pandemic how much death...

and is SVE Sweden? or another country? (as long as we beat Sweden then Norway health authorities will take lots of credit)
 
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Marsden
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Re: The vaccines

January 3rd, 2022, 4:31 pm

No Denmark in stats? Looking at numbers, Denmark had around 500-ish COVID deaths per million as of the 22 June 2021 date of measurement for the study, and 14% Vitamin D deficiency in "either spring and or/autumn; however, many had a spring concentration below 50 nmol/L" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6265892/ (Paper looking specifically at seasonal variation in Vitamin D deficiency.)

So this aligns pretty well (very well!) with best fit line of chart.


I think it is generally acknowledged (at least in America) that many people do not get enough Vitamin D, to the detriment of their health. I expect that at least part of the Vitamin D/COVID relationship is (a) just general health better; and (b) more awareness of health risks and actions to address them.
 
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bearish
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Re: The vaccines

January 3rd, 2022, 11:18 pm

No Denmark in stats? Looking at numbers, Denmark had around 500-ish COVID deaths per million as of the 22 June 2021 date of measurement for the study, and 14% Vitamin D deficiency in "either spring and or/autumn; however, many had a spring concentration below 50 nmol/L" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6265892/ (Paper looking specifically at seasonal variation in Vitamin D deficiency.)

So this aligns pretty well (very well!) with best fit line of chart.


I think it is generally acknowledged (at least in America) that many people do not get enough Vitamin D, to the detriment of their health. I expect that at least part of the Vitamin D/COVID relationship is (a) just general health better; and (b) more awareness of health risks and actions to address them.
Just for the record, I’ve recently doubled my dose of D3 capsules. And I made mackerel for dinner yesterday!