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PaperCut
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how's that new congress doing ?

September 29th, 2007, 8:12 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: hullabaloo...I fail to see how your blurb disagrees with the previously published data. i.e. you forgot to make a point that was relevant to the topic at hand. But I would not worry about it, it happens a lot around here.Heh heh.Characterizing Democrats as "the Good Guys," who are thwarted by Republicans ("the Bad Guys") is just silly. They are all culpable. I posted the article that shows clearly the Dems don't actually give a crap about anything (other than obtaining power), either. They do have the power to stop the war. They won't. Give them Congress, give them the White House. Go ahead. They will not stop the war.How about, as a first try, the attempt a repeal of the War Powers Act? They won't, because they want it too.
 
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hullabaloo
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 2nd, 2007, 11:25 am

-- I posted the article that shows clearly the Dems don't actually give a crap about anything (other than obtaining power)You might want to point out where it "clearly" shows that. Of course they want to be in office, that is what the whole game is about!-- How about, as a first try, the attempt a repeal of the War Powers Act? A controversial Act no doubt, but just because the current regime abused it, does that mean it serves no purpose."Just tell your readers that you have a source who knows a lot about the Republican party from long experience, that he knows all the key movers and shakers, and he has a bit of advice: People should not vote for any Republican, because they're dangerous, dishonest and self-serving. While I once believed that Governor George Wallace had it right, that there was not a dime's worth of difference in the parties; that is not longer true. I have come to realize the Democrats really do care about people who most need help from government; Republicans care most about those who will only get richer because of government help. The government is truly broken, particularly in dealing with national security, and another four years, and heaven forbid not eight years, under the Republicans, and our grandchildren will have to build a new government, because the one we have will be unrecognizable and unworkable."These new conservative leaders have not only sought to turn back the clock, but to return to a time before the Enlightenment when there were no clocks.
 
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PaperCut
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 2:04 am

Let's see if we can agree on one key item:The founding fathers did not want the presidency having as much power as it has right now (nor did they want the high court passing judgenment on lawmaking, either). They wanted congress to be powerful. They also did not want a huge standing army.
 
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gardener3
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 1:45 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaperCutLet's see if we can agree on one key item:The founding fathers did not want the presidency having as much power as it has right now (nor did they want the high court passing judgenment on lawmaking, either). They wanted congress to be powerful. They also did not want a huge standing army.Perhaps, but little after the declaration of independence, Jefferson started a war without congressional approval.
 
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ppauper
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 1:54 pm

QuoteIn response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli "and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify."
 
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hullabaloo
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 2:13 pm

-- The founding fathers did not want the presidency having as much power They definitely did not want to have one of the dumbest, ride his fathers coattails, lying sack of shit as president, but I think that one of the conservative members objected to having the word shit in the constitution.
 
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ppauper
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 2:22 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: hullabalooThey definitely did not want to have one of the dumbest, ride his fathers coattails, lying sack of shit as president.you really think Patrick Kennedy's got a shot ?
 
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gardener3
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 4:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteIn response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli "and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify."Actually, Jefferson waited until it was too late for the vessels to be recalled back before informing the congress in case they disagreed with him. He was quite passionate about this issue.
Last edited by gardener3 on October 2nd, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PaperCut
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 3rd, 2007, 9:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: hullabaloo-- The founding fathers did not want the presidency having as much power They definitely did not want to have one of the dumbest, ride his fathers coattails, lying sack of shit as president, but I think that one of the conservative members objected to having the word shit in the constitution.I tried to meet you halfway. So,WHATEVER
 
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hullabaloo
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October 18th, 2007, 12:48 am

-- The founding fathers did not want the presidency having as much power For three decades Vice President Dick Cheney conducted a secretive, behind-closed-doors campaign to give the president virtually unlimited wartime power. Finally, in the aftermath of 9/11, the Justice Department and the White House made a number of controversial legal decisions. Orchestrated by Cheney and his lawyer David Addington, the department interpreted executive power in an expansive and extraordinary way, granting President George W. Bush the power to detain, interrogate, torture, wiretap and spy -- without congressional approval or judicial review. Cheney's Law.
 
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quantmeh
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 18th, 2007, 4:40 am

new congress wants to screw up Iraq by screwing up Turkey. perfect timing
 
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ppauper
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October 18th, 2007, 12:56 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: jawabeannew congress wants to screw up Iraq by screwing up Turkey. perfect timingfor those who don't know,Nancy Pelosi wants a vote on a resolution that labels the deaths of more than a million Armenians during World War I as genocide.To date twenty-two countries have officially recognized it as genocideThe Armenian genocide was not the only one the Turks committed.As I said once before:QuoteQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteAll researchers into Bosnia and its past, be they Serbo-Croatian or foreign, have felt in a position to state in concert and more or less forcefully that the effect of Turkish rule was absolutely negative... The venality that seems to have been a vice of the whole race of Turks showed up from their very first appearance on the stage of history... The Turks could bring no cultural content or sense of higher historical mission, even to those South Slavs who accepted Islam; for their Christian subjects, their hegemony brutalized custom and meant a step backward in every respect. Ivo Andric (1892-1975, won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1961, the author of The Bridge on the Drina and Bosnian Chronicle) concluded that Turkish Muslim rule had a totally negative and deleterious effect upon the Bosnian population. Moreover, by forcing the population of Bosnia to convert to Islam in order to keep their lands and in order to have any political, social, or economic future was "tantamount to forced conversion." The invidious and venal customs of the Muslim Turks, tantamount to genocide, in forcefully creating a Muslim Turkish population in Bosnia at the expense of destroying the Orthodox Serbian and Catholic Croatian and Bogomil populations were many and varied. Crucial for the Islamicization of Bosnia was the peculiar and venal Turkish Muslim institution of the boy-tribute, or Adzami-Oglan. This was the Muslim custom and practice, the tribute of blood, whereby Christian families had to give to the Muslim Ottoman Empire their best male offspring to be brought up as Muslim protectors of the Turkish Empire. Many became janizaries (from Turkish yenicheri, new troops) or soldiers in the Turkish Sultanнs Guard, which was originally made up of foreign slaves and which was established in the 14th century by Murat I and abolished in 1826. Every five years special Muslim commissioners were sent out from Constantinople (Istanbul) know as the telosnici, from telos, the name of this tax. The commissioners went from village to village. Every Christian family was required to declare the exact number of children in the household. The commissioner then decided how many children to take of those that were the healthiest and the best-looking. Three years after the Muslim Turkish conquest and occupation of Bosnia in 1463, the first telosnik appeared to collect the Christian children. This practice continued until the 17th century. Andric stated that the "abducted children soon forgot, as we said, their paternal hearth and faith and turned into fanatic 'Turks'." This was how a Muslim and Turkish population was engineered in Bosnia-Hercegovina. The traveler Bartholomaus Georgiewitz, who spent many years as a prisoner in Turkey, had personal eyewitness experience of this practice of the boy-tribute tax and described it in these terms: Apart from the other tax burdens which Christians had to bear under Turkish rule, from time to time their handsomest offspring were seized from them. Separating the children from their parents, the Turks would instruct them in martial arts. These children, abducted by force, never returned to their parents. Alienated from the Christian religion, little by little they forgot faith, parents, brothers and sisters, and all their blood relatives, so when they later encountered their parents they no longer recognized them. I can find no right words to picture the pain and sorrow, the weeping and wailing of these parents when their children were torn from their bosoms and out of their grasp by those fiends. To parents who had just barely begun to instruct their children in Christian teaching, the hardest thought was that the religion of their forebears would be lost and they would be turning them into dreadful enemies of the Christian religion and of Christian people. Religious conversion was so important because it was the sole criterion of life in the lands conquered and subjugated by the Muslim Turks; Islam was the sole and crucial unifying and defining criterion of the Muslim Turkish Ottoman Empire. In Muslim countries, the rulers saw no distinction between religious and political institutions; in fact, they were one. In an era before nationalism and the modern nation state, religion was the defining criteria. Andric explained that in the Ottoman Empire, Islam was the common thread holding the Empire together, the hegemony of Islam pervaded and imbued all institutions of the society and culture and political structures: "The life of the mind and spirit developed under conditions imposed by Islam, not only for those who embraced it but for all Turkish subjects irrespective of faith. The Turkish rule and occupation of Bosnia had severe deleterious effects upon the social, cultural, political, and economic development of the Serbs. Serbs were compelled to settle and live in isolated mountainous regions to escape the Turkish predations of the boy-tribute or devsirme and to avoid the constant impressments into the Muslim Turkish armies which needed manpower in the long-standing Turkish quest to conquer all of Christian Europe. The Muslim Turks and Muslim North Africans had for centuries sought to invade and occupy infidel Christian Europe and to bring the continent under the banner of Islam. From the east, in 669 AD, the city of Constantinople, the Christian capital of Byzantium and of Orthodoxy, was attacked and besieged by the Arab armies commanded by Ejup-ul-Ensari Halit bin Zeyd. By 1453, Constantinople was finally overrun and conquered by the Turkish Muslim armies of Mohammed II. The Orthodox Christian population, men, women, and children, was then brutally butchered and exterminated in toto while the survivors were made into slaves. The Muslims then went on to turn Constantinople into Istanbul, the Muslim capital of the Ottoman Empire and the new Mecca for expansionist Islam. The Muslims would build over 450 mosques in the formerly Christian Orthodox city and would convert the Sancta or Hagia Sophia Orthodox Church, the most sacred temple of Orthodoxy, into a mosque. Eastern Europe was eventually conquered and brought under the rule of Islam, following the Ottoman Turkish military victories at Maritsa in 1371 and Kosovo in 1389 by Murat I, which brought Serbia under Ottoman occupation. In 1529, Suleiman I or the Magnificent was unable to take Vienna. The Muslim invasion and conquest of Eastern Europe was finally halted by the Polish King John III Sobieski and his Hussars along with the forces of Prinz Eugen, who finally broke the Muslim siege of Vienna and pushed the Muslim Turks back to their bases and military staging areas in Bosnia in 1683. Muslims committed four-large scale genocides against Eastern Orthodox Christians. The first Muslim genocide was in 1876 against the Bulgarian Orthodox Christians. Over 12,000 men, women, and children were brutally exterminated by the Ottoman Turks. The Bulgarian atrocities shocked the conscience of Europe. Following the Bosnian Serb Revolution or Insurrection in 1875, the Bulgarians had followed the Serbian example and had sought to emancipate themselves from Ottoman Turkish occupation. This Muslim genocide alienated British and Western European support for the Ottoman Empire, the sick man of Europe, which earlier had British support as a bulwark against Russia and against Orthodoxy. The second Muslim genocide occurred in 1896 against the Armenian Orthodox Christians. Several thousand Armenian men, women, and children were massacred by Muslim Turks and Kurds. Sultan Abdul Hamid II stated that the way to get rid of the Armenian question is to get rid of the Armenians.hmmm, substitute "jew" for armenian and it sounds familiar doesn't itQuoteThe third Muslim genocide occurred in 1915 again against the Orthodox Armenians. Using the cover of the World War, the Ottoman Turks exterminated several million Armenian men, women, and children in a large-scale genocide. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi German regime would during World War II use this Muslim genocide of Orthodox Christians as a model and blueprint for the extermination of European Jewry, the Final Solution or Holocaust. In August, 1939, Adolf Hitler asked: Who remembers now the extermination of the Armenians? The fourth Muslim genocide occurred in Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosovo-Metohija from 1941-1945 and was conducted by Bosnian Muslims and Kosovo Albanians against Orthodox Serbs. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el Husseini oversaw the extermination of Orthodox Serbs in Bosnia and in Kosovo. Husseini was never brought to trial for the genocide and mass murder of thousands of Orthodox Serbs. Serbian Orthodox Christians endured severe hardships and repression during the Turkish Muslim occupation and rule of Bosnia. Serbian Orthodox Christians were forbidden from making wine, breeding pigs, and from selling pork products by the Muslim rulers. Serbian Orthodox Christians could not be saddlers, tanners, or candle makers, or trade in honey, butter, and other items. The only legal market day for the Christian Serbs was Sunday under the Sheriat, or Shariah, the Muslim religious legal code. Sunday, however, was the holy day or Sabbath for Christians, thus Serbian inhabitants of Bosnia had to choose between eating or observing their religious faith. Moreover, Christian Serbs paid much higher taxes than Muslims. A poll tax (arac, or harach, tribute) or head tax was levied on Serbs at a ducat per year. This poll tax only applied to non-Muslims who had reached the age of 14, but since birth registers (matriken) were never kept in Turkey, the result was that every Serbian Christian boy without distinction as to age was required to pay the tax. The curvee, or unpaid labor due from a serf to his lord, was exacted from Orthodox Serbian serfs. In 1848, the curvee was abolished during the reforms, but the lords, begs and agas, were allowed to increase their rents on their lands. An 1859 decree made Muslim landowners the owners of the land outright, making the Serbian Orthodox sharecroppers, who worked on the land of the Muslim beys or agas and received a share of the crops, like a white or Negro sharecropper in the US South.
 
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gardener3
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 18th, 2007, 3:16 pm

And of course, ppauper forgot to add, Bush, et al. are vehemently opposed and will make sure it won't pass in the house. It'd be nice if they also passed a bill recognizing the genocide of american aboriginals, or the genocide of muslim bosnians at the hands of christian serbs.
 
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ppauper
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 19th, 2007, 2:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3And of course, ppauper forgot to add, Bush, et al. are vehemently opposed and will make sure it won't pass in the house. What a curious and random statement to make.It was jawabean who said:>>new congress wants to screw up Iraq by screwing up Turkey. perfect timing I merely reminded the readers of what this particular genocide entailed.The turks of course have been resonsible for multiple genocides.
 
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Cuchulainn
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 19th, 2007, 2:53 pm

ppauper,You answered half of gardener's question, that is this genocide, 11 years ago.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on October 18th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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