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ppauper
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October 19th, 2007, 2:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperI merely reminded the readers of what this particular genocide entailed.The turks of course have been resonsible for multiple genocides.I forgot to mention the assyrian genocide, which for some reason is much less popular than the armenian genocide:QuoteThe genocide of Assyrians has yet to be officially recognized by any country. This is in contrast to the Armenian Genocide, which has been recognized by many countries and international organizations. Assyrian historians state the primary reason for this lack of recognition is that Assyria has been deprived of real political power throughout the 20th century.[citation needed] In addition, the massacre of Christians in Asia Minor is usually linked solely to the Armenian Genocide. On April 24, 2001, Governor of the US state of New York, George Pataki, proclaimed that "killings of civilians and food and water deprivation during forced marches across harsh, arid terrain proved successful for the perpetrators of genocide, who harbored a prejudice against... Assyrian Christians."
 
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Cuchulainn
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how's that new congress doing ?

October 19th, 2007, 2:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnppauper,You answered half of gardener's question, that is he was referring implicitly to this genocide, 11 years ago.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on October 18th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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quantmeh
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October 19th, 2007, 3:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperI merely reminded the readers of what this particular genocide entailed.The turks of course have been resonsible for multiple genocides.my post was about timing. timing is everything, as we all should know
 
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ppauper
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October 20th, 2007, 12:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnppauper,You answered half of gardener's question.I said that it was a bizarre statement to make as I was not the one who made the relevant post
 
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ppauper
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October 20th, 2007, 1:38 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: jawabeanQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperI merely reminded the readers of what this particular genocide entailed.The turks of course have been resonsible for multiple genocides.my post was about timing. timing is everything, as we all should knowI clearly differ from the administration on the issue of Turkey.The turks are far from being our bestest buds. Fairweather friends at best.recall what happened in the run-up to the war:QuoteIn the run-up to the Iraq war, Washington offered political and economic incentives to try to persuade Ankara to allow the US military to use Turkish territory as a base for the invasion. But with public opinion in Turkey running more than 90 per cent against the war, the Turkish parliament rejected the prime minister's request and refused to allow passage of American troops or weapons into Iraq. The 4th Infantry Division was re-routed and invaded Iraq from Kuwait.The turks one suspects are scared about the possibility of the Kurds in Iraq getting independence because their own kurds want the same.All of this talk from the administration about not alienating turkey because they're our friends has a familiar ring:flashback to the London Daily News of 1876 when we learnt of appalling Turkish massacres against the Bulgars, accompanied by sodomy, rape and torture (sounds like NZ)At the time, the turks were an ally of britain against tsarist expansionism, because of which Disraeli refused to act. Gladstone on the other hand brought out a pamphlet "The Bulgarian Horrors and the Question of the East", calling for the eviction of the Turks from Europe.I'm also curious as to which Armenian genocide Ms Pelosi is condemning:my copy of the splendid Death by Government lists:1.75 MILLION armenians killed by turkey under the cover of WW1 (it got so bad that their allies the germans told them to take it easy on the genocide; when germans are telling you to back of on the genocide, you know you've got problems).After the war, change of government in turkey but business as usual: another 700,000 armenians killed.Oh, and there was a massacre just before WW1 in 1894.
 
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gardener3
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October 20th, 2007, 3:43 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3And of course, ppauper forgot to add, Bush, et al. are vehemently opposed and will make sure it won't pass in the house. What a curious and random statement to make.It was jawabean who said:>>new congress wants to screw up Iraq by screwing up Turkey. perfect timing I merely reminded the readers of what this particular genocide entailed.The turks of course have been resonsible for multiple genocides.History is complex. Turks have also saved people from persecution and genocide, of jews for instance at the hands of the christians. I find it rather idiotic that somehow the us congress thinks it can determine what constitutes genocide and which genocides are important in history. If they are in the business of recognizing genocides, perhaps they should start with their own. Recognize the genocide of american aboriginals, or bring Kissinger to justice for his role in massacres in se asia. If France wants to make the denial of armenian genocide illegal, then it should answer the calls of Algeria to recognize its genocide of algerians.
 
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ppauper
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October 22nd, 2007, 1:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3 I find it rather idiotic that somehow the us congress thinks it can determine what constitutes genocide and which genocides are important in history.it seems that you are opposed to the US congress following 22 other countries and recognizing the killing of 1.75 MILLION armenians under the cover of WW1 and 700,000 armenians immediately after the war as genocide.Not to forget the Turkish massacres of Armenians in 1894, 1895, 1896 (300,000 dead between them), and 1909 (30,000 dead?)I do not recall you taking a similar position on Tuesday, June 27 when the US Congress House of Representatives adopted a resolution demanding that those responsible for the Srebrenica massacre be brought to justice.Reportedly 7800 died at Srebenica.I find it rather idiotic that somehow gardener thinks he can determine what constitutes genocide and which genocides are important in history.Nor do I recall him mentioning that in WW2QuoteThousands of Jews, Serbs and Gypsies were exterminated in Croatian camps. At the most infamous of these, Jasenovac, close to 100,000 victims was killed-and not by gas- but by the bullet, the club or knife. In Bosnia, similar massacres of Serbs took place. The Muslims of Bosnia often assisted the Ustashi killers. Later in the war, the Germans recruited a Muslim SS Division, which gained notoriety for its atrocities against the Serbian civilian population.Quote "I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared with the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915." Henry Morgenthau, American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, 1913-1916QuoteAdolf Hitler at an August 1939 military meeting, prior to the invasion of Poland: “ I have issued the command -- and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad -- that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness -- for the present only in the East -- with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space [Lebensraum] which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?
 
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ppauper
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October 22nd, 2007, 1:52 pm

meanwhile our friends the turksTurkish Prime Minister warns US: we will attack Kurdish rebels in Iraq
 
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gardener3
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October 22nd, 2007, 4:56 pm

peter puffer, since you seem to lack enough brains cells to comprehend simple sentences or lines of logic, let me make it clear for you: I think it is a disgrace that the Turkish government refuses to recognize the armenian genocide. Like I said before if we are in the business of recognizing and condeming genocides, I think it would make sense to start with our own. You have to be moron not to see that these bill are politically motivated. For god's sake even the Anti Defamation League did not recognize the armenian genocide until few months ago and they still vehemently oppose this bill for political reasons.
 
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quantmeh
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October 23rd, 2007, 1:51 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperThe turks are far from being our bestest buds. Fairweather friends at best.recall what happened in the run-up to the war:QuoteIn the run-up to the Iraq war, Washington offered political and economic incentives to try to persuade Ankara to allow the US military to use Turkish territory as a base for the invasion. But with public opinion in Turkey running more than 90 per cent against the war, the Turkish parliament rejected the prime minister's request and refused to allow passage of American troops or weapons into Iraq. The 4th Infantry Division was re-routed and invaded Iraq from Kuwait.i think that nobody who helped this Adm with 2nd Iraq war has ever benefited. Poland, Spain, UK? what benefits they got? nothing in exchange, pretty much, only troubles. Turks would b insane to help with this war, when France didnt. it was against their interests, and this Adm didnt consult them when started this war.Turks may not b the prefect friends, but who are? armenia? what do u know about them?
 
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ppauper
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October 24th, 2007, 2:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3 I think it is a disgrace that the Turkish government refuses to recognize the armenian genocidethat's one thing we agree on, and it's a shame you didn't say that earlier.QuoteLike I said before if we are in the business of recognizing and condeming genocides, I think it would make sense to start with our own(i) "Like I said before" ? I don't recall you saying precisely that. What you said before was somewhat different.(ii) I note that you are a muslim so can we take it that when you say "our own" you are referring to acts of genocides by muslimsQuoteYou have to be moron not to see that these bill are politically motivated. Indeed, and equally opposition to it/them ("these bill) is politically motivated also. Disclaimer: I have in the past had two american-armenian girlfriends (one of whom was jewish). That's my only connection to Armenia
 
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gardener3
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October 24th, 2007, 4:30 pm

"(i) "Like I said before" ? I don't recall you saying precisely that. What you said before was somewhat different."That's because you are a moron and cannot follow simple lines of logic. "(ii) I note that you are a muslim so can we take it that when you say "our own" you are referring to acts of genocides by muslims"The 'We' clearly refers to the US. Again this shows a complete lack intelligence on your part to infer simple things from very simple sentences. Since you have no idea about my religious bliefs, all you could be doing is projecting your racist hatred for other people on to a random person who holds a different opinion. This shows not only that you are a moron but also a bigot.
 
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ppauper
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October 25th, 2007, 1:46 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3"(i) "Like I said before" ? I don't recall you saying precisely that. What you said before was somewhat different."That's because you are a moron and cannot follow simple lines of logicI'll take that as an admission that in fact you did not say that which you claimed to say, but rather are trying to twist what you actually did sayQuote"(ii) I note that you are a muslim so can we take it that when you say "our own" you are referring to acts of genocides by muslims"The 'We' clearly refers to the US.No. You don't get to pick or choose which "we" you belong toQuote This shows not only that you are a moron but also a bigot.I'm a bigot because I acknowledge that your buddies in turkey slaughtered several million armenians ?The traditional definition of a "bigot" is of course "a conservative winning an argument with a liberal". Modify it slightly in this case, but I'm sure you get the point
 
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gardener3
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October 25th, 2007, 3:39 pm

Quote I'll take that as an admission that in fact you did not say that which you claimed to say, but rather are trying to twist what you actually did say Sorry I don't cater to people with the intelligence of a 10 yr old. Quote No. You don't get to pick or choose which "we" you belong to" What does this have anything to do with anything? You just like saying random stuff when you have nothing of value to say? You think I am a muslim, because I think everybody's equal. Well, you are wrong about my religion. Quote I'm a bigot because I acknowledge that your buddies in turkey slaughtered several million armenians ?The traditional definition of a "bigot" is of course "a conservative winning an argument with a liberal". Modify it slightly in this case, but I'm sure you get the point No you are a bigot because instead of seeing slaughters of people you see slaughters of christian people and ignore massacres of muslims, which you perceive as being inferior. That makes you a bigot. You have no idea if I am a liberal or a conservative (or whether I think those labels make any sense). And once again you are wrong in your characterization. Quote The traditional definition of a "bigot" is of course "a conservative winning an argument with a liberal". Modify it slightly in this case, but I'm sure you get the point Of course, the only person who would make such a statement would be a bigot losing argument.
 
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TraderJoe
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October 25th, 2007, 11:18 pm

I'd just like to say that I think mrs ppauper has finally met her match. Shame .
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