Hello:I just watched (in the Historical channel) the truth story of this team. I checked out the website made by one of those guys (www.blackjackscience.com); I planning to buy the book (and there is a Hollywood movie coming soon)being a 21 player (more for fun; even though I have made some money in it but never in those amounts). I like to know if there interets in this topic (after all it is sort of "akin" to finance).BTW I took the Lyceum 15: Optimality In Horse Racing by Aristotle 9and the other article published on that topic overhere) and make some "adaptions" of my own (still I haven't won any big race but I am hitting 4 races out 6, 3 races out of six ; no big winnings yet.) I used a little and simple formula for multiple optimization responses (mimo (2,2) order system) under stochastic noise (where average winning is being maximized while the deviation is being minimized) . Does anyone know how to properly rate such a system (other than hitting the 6 out of 6 races?).What would be a proper way to know that my system is good? (befoer actually putting money there!!!).

In a nutshell: Good ol' MIT prof makes a "discovery" (reads "Beat the Dealer, etc. etc. or he was already a 21 palyer; this part I'm not sure); then he and some friends (the management; from now on) talk some guys with money (the investors from now on) into financing a team of students (the players) who he will teach to paly 21 basic startegy, advanced calculation, hi-lo counting etc. etc and then develops a "strategy" so when winning the casinos culdn't get to actually accused them of counting cards (not ielgal but, "politically incorrect" in gambling places).As per I could watched the stratagy was sort of having a "scout" who played sort of low bets while waiting to have the Hi count in the ored of 10 or so; at that moment the actual player cut in that table (since that guy was always betting high, the casino could not say he was the one counting cards but ...his timing was so "perfect")The team players (composed of MIT students) actually get a bite out of Las Vegas, Montecarlo, etc. Atlanctic City,casinos boats, Indian casinos, Puerto Rico (it is not actually mentioned here but they mentioned the Caribbean so, I will make such supposition).However, lady luck strike back (as you might know the winning thread will not last that long after all) and for like a year they make short of US $1Million but they lost it shortly afterward; at the same time they were spotted and idetified as the "MIT Team" in the casinos and their descriptions, photos etc. widely distribuited among casinos' guys (in a "black list" the casinos are supposed to update so every other casino knows about the "bad guys";i.e., cheaters, counters etc.). At the same time, some sort of problems arised between the players (who got only 10% of the winnings in one side and the management and the investors (45%-45% of the profits) on the other side.the story was good; has all the elements of a good movie (love?, greed, a lot of money, high profile stuff {hey every moron around the word knows about 21 or have heard about it}; the basics of the game are not hard to understand (much like chess but even easier) so add a little math on the side (sort of "A Beautiful Mind" kind of movie); and the ol' good fairly story of some kids who beta the big bad boy using "streetsmart" techniques (not high IQ since that will turn off most of the morons who actually pay for the movie) . Only thing left: we need a "cute guy" to portrait the hero (Ricky Martin? perhaps? Anyway a new face could do it.Indeed I am interested in honing my 21 skills. I always liked (more than liked, I was thrilled) by the fact that with some litle effort (well, a big one actually) you can actually beat the odds. A a little thinking on the side and there you ahve it!!! Mind over morons.

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: MaeloHello:I just watched (in the Historical channel) the truth story of this team. I checked out the website made by one of those guys (www.blackjackscience.com); I planning to buy the book (and there is a Hollywood movie coming soon) .are these guys doing anything remarkable, or no ?I saw them on a magazine show on TV, and as far as I can tell (it was somewhat vague), they were just using common sense (like if there is a king visible on the table, you know there's one less king left in the deck), and then throwing the phrase MIT around so everyone assumes they're geniuses.the program only taljed abiout some of the team members: one of them (it seems the best player or something; anyway the best performer) has a website (listed below) and seems to make a living of teaching how to play; the girl 9don't knowe if ter was more than one but theit seems she was one of the key memeber or something) is finishing a PhD in ME (so it said; I wonder if she was as hot as the actor who portrait her. Uhm? Anyone knows her, I would like to date such a girl (intelligence, fun-loving, hot body, uhm?) What i was talking about? Oh! Yes. the story goes about the same for every guy in the team (Don't kno how truthfull that story could be but it seems to match the fact that once banned from the casinos those kids could not go again into playing (anyway; it seemed whatever money they made was not that much as for starting another team on their own and go back in the trenches of las Vegas. That kind of money is too high (in the thousands of dollars; only the very rich (and stupid) or a professional player could get to bet $25 grands in just one hand and not get the hillies-billies whn losing them. I, for that matter, cannot.

Got ya!!I am also a "fan" (could we said that?) of blackjack. I have read some books on the subject but, once I mastered the basic technique what I did was to buy a 12 computer gaem and practice there (chepaer than get to practice in an actula casino; less real but chepare anyway) ; back in my Jr. High and High Schoool I used to play in the "casinos: in the back of the school (not for long since it was "ran" by the "local mob" and they used to sell drugs etc. in the same place so it wasn't a good idae to stay there longer than needed or even be there so after a while I did not have the chance to play but with my own cousins, etc with 1 deck nad strictly for fun; otherwise my behind could suffer).That is when compuetrs came...and games are pretty :real" at least they simulated more than 4 or 6 decks and cut them before finishing the decks, etc sort of actual simulation. Better than playing with just 1 deck anyway.When old enough I got into an actual casino (there are lots of them in Puerto Rico); and played..and won..and lost as well. I was fascinated with the different "idaes" the players had (a lot of supertitions; most people seem not to have grasped even the basic startegy at all; once in a while comes a guys'gal that actually knows his/her stuff and it is a plaesure to seat with him/her and "eworke as a team" 9sort of anyway) since onvce there is people in the atble that actually know how to paly...becomes some sotrt fo contest "we against" the dealer.. It is fun (but costly) fun.There has been a while since the last time I played with my compuetr; let alone go to a casino to play (work, studies, family, etc. etc.) ; howvere I still have curiosity about the possibility of getting "optimal stopping times theory" as applied to blackjack.ANyone?

best blackjack player I ever met was my math brother, God Rest His Soul.

Quotehowvere I still have curiosity about the possibility of getting "optimal stopping times theory" as applied to blackjack.In blackjack parlance, finding the optimal stopping time is known as "Wonging out", after the blackjack luminary Stanford Wong. The less poetic word is "table-hopping." Very much like American options, the problem is to lose as little EV as possible betting in a negative count, without giving up the chance to bet in a positive count later in the shoe. (Of course, if the casino is so clueless that they will allow a player to sit out and re-enter the shoe at will, this isn't a problem.)"Wonging in", or "backcounting" is an easier problem. One just waits for the count to go positive before sitting down. This is also a great trick for variance reduction.The best book I know of on these matters is Blackjack Attack (Schlesinger).If you are brand-new to counting, however, you probably want to start with something like Blackbelt in Blackjack (Snyder).

I'm with PunterGoop -- The Uston book is a great read and, without poo-pooing the MIT team (their P&L speaks for itself), the team has received a lot of notarity and much of it was due to marketing "in a hot market" for such stories. In my opinion, give the MIT kids an "A" for originality for doing some marketing of their story. The team play concept, however, has been around, in book form, for 20+ years... so "No Grade Given" for originality on the gaming front for the team.