Dude have you seen the group that the Czech are in....As for Spain....I think it will be the same old story...messing up in the big tournament.....Personally I wouldnt be surprised if the Italians vs Germany. Italy becasue they have a great squad and have no internal politics gonig on ( as opposed to the Dutch) and Germany because by hook or by crook they always gt there no matter how rubbish they are

Just one question - Hargreaves. I mean wtf. He would not get a game for my Sunday league side. Is someone having a laugh. Plus I am more bloody English than him !!

"Dude have you seen the group that the Czech are in....As for Spain....I think it will be the same old story...messing up in the big tournament....."agree, but you gotta hit the outliers every now and then; think the czechs could easily end up winning their group; germans are always in there but i think this time they'll get annihilated by the dutch & the czechs; also fancy croatia at 80-1;

Clarion, Have to agree. Why Sven - who's not afraid to test things out in the oh-so-many "two-halfs-two-games" friendlys that we've had recently - has not tried Cole (A) in front of Bridge beggars belief. With Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham making up the rest of the midfield we would be half way to having a quality middle of the park..........as for Heskey, don't get me started, as a Liverpool fan, I cannot quite believe that we have been stuck with him for the last two years. As a regular pick in the premiership how many goals has he scored in comparison to his peers? 7 goals in 35 league appearances - have a word! Just not enough. Why we even talk about him in the context of the England team is another matter all together. However, this is phenomenon is nothing unusual for us England fans, see: Neville (P), 45 caps.........shockingHAE

Just wonder what everyone thinks of the Holland's chances?Saw them play a friendly against a experimental Irish side at the weekend and they really looked poor. The Irish shouldn't have been too much of a challenge but Advocate played with both full backs pushing really far forward and left the two central defenders really exposed. They also lacked width and invention going forward. Perhaps with RVN & Makaay up front they can score there way out of trouble but I can't see them going too far.

dutch dont have a chanceTechnically one of the best but if you fight with each other and dontk now of any system that works then you dont have a chance

Agreed - I also think they have a particular weakness in central defense. Stam looks to have lost a yard or two of pace and pace was never Frank DeBoar main strength (if he plays).I like Spain though. I think they have found a few good young players since the last tournament (Vicente, Torres, Alonso,...). Of course how much this is a factor in a knock out tournament is debatable.

I am offended. Losing to Ireland isnt that bad !! Ok so we were missing a few players, but with Given, Cunnigham and Keane (Robbo) we had a strong spine, and our real strength is team spirit and hard work. We may have had a poor qualifying tournament but that was a team in transition, but we dont lose very often and are very rarely hammered (excluding the recent 0-3 v Nigeria). Of course we are far from the best team around, and may never feature in the latter stages of big tournaments, but I think we are capable of giving any team at euro 2004 a good game. So I dont think it is all doom and gloom for the dutch (dont forget we beat you in the wcq, and should have one the match in holland too, 2-0 with fifteen to go).P.S. Alan Quinn who was playing on Saturday may be an international unknown playing second division football, but dont forget he has scored a goal in a european championship final, as part of the winning team !!QuoteOriginally posted by: FeanorJust wonder what everyone thinks of the Holland's chances?Saw them play a friendly against a experimental Irish side at the weekend and they really looked poor. The Irish shouldn't have been too much of a challenge but Advocate played with both full backs pushing really far forward and left the two central defenders really exposed. They also lacked width and invention going forward. Perhaps with RVN & Makaay up front they can score there way out of trouble but I can't see them going too far.

"but I think we are capable of giving any team at euro 2004 a good game"think you're right... Ireland's gotta be the most talentless yet the most hardworking/determined team in Europe...

Only in Japan // It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days. It has become just 'another sport' here in EU land. So I have stopped and do another martial art.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnOnly in Japan // It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days. It has become just 'another sport' here in EU land. So I have stopped and do another martial art.What do you mean exactly with "It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days" ?? What martial art have you started ?

QuoteOriginally posted by: edouardQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnOnly in Japan // It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days. It has become just 'another sport' here in EU land. So I have stopped and do another martial art.What do you mean exactly with "It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days" ?? What martial art have you started ?and why would other people doing it detract from you ? you're only interested in a martial art which no one else does ?big fish in a little pond

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: edouardQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnOnly in Japan // It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days. It has become just 'another sport' here in EU land. So I have stopped and do another martial art.What do you mean exactly with "It's a real pain to watch/do judo these days" ?? What martial art have you started ?and why would other people doing it detract from you ? you're only interested in a martial art which no one else does ?big fish in a little pondNo. The problem is my judo lessons these days are 95% theory and forms (boring), and 5% randori = fighting instead of 40% / 60% in the old days (btw my sensei in the old days had 2 gold medals from Munich 1972, 5 times European and world champion etc. and is in the Japanese style.) The issue is also judokas do not respect/know the Japanese principles. The judo style in Japan has been loyal its roots.That's the reason. Now I do jiu jitsu which is all action + strict regime, in line with tradition. I am a white belt in jiu jitsu.