Greetings folks,As it turns out, my first and only contribution to the Wilmott boards is unfortunately a solicitation for free advice...but no joke, it's taken me about 3 weeks of research to finally track down an online community of folks who are working/familiar with an area that has really peaked my interest of late. I've spent a good chunk of the long weekend (I live in Canada...) reading through the various forums and this is by far one of the more solid online communities I've ever come across.My Background: I've been developing software professionally for the past 5 years...most of it in C/C++ on UNIX (SOLARIS 2.5-2.8 to be precise). The target industry for all my work has been...and don't laugh...the telecom equipment industry. Looking past the obvious reason for switching over to the F&I industry (i.e. most telco eqpt co's are quickly/slowing dying a horrible death), I do find the work, challenges, and diversity to be much more rewarding than the stade old telco eqpt field...as I've been discovering over the past several months.I've worked on several large-scale applications...all requiring some database work (with ObjectStore) and were of a distributed/multi-threaded nature...with definite performance constraints....and transaction processing was huge as transactionally consistent data was paramount.With all that said, let's get a few things straight first:1) I'm not looking to become a hot-shot analyst or even immediately break into quantitative finance (although if such an opportunity were to arise, I would seriously consider it).2) My immediate goal is to develop my career as an application software developer...but within the financial industry...helping you guys develop the ultra-cool financial tools and applications used to generate billions for your firms!Problem: Other than the math I picked up in my undergrad Computer Engineering program, I pretty much know squat about any of the sophisticated quant math behind most financial derivatives. I have a basic fundamental knowledge about the various flavours of these products...but I sure as hell couldn't derive the Black-Scholes formula from scratch....Looking from the outside-->in, I'm seeing that you have Quant folks who have knowledge of the math and some programming to get by, you have the Traders/Analysts who have knowledge of the business and some of the underlying math...but there doesn't seem to be much discussion/focus on people who have the programming/app. development background who have basic understandings of the business and even the math side of things.In the context of the work you do, where does someone like myself fit in the picture?Just looking for some input from the insiders...

It's grim dude. Everybody and their cousin wants to get into finance. Even the most basic grunt jobs writing code for traders get stacks and stacks of PhDs with exeprience in the finance industry.I have my last interview tomorrow and I'm considering throwing in the towel. Three months, day and night. I've sent out over a hundred resumes. Got a few interviews, but got smoked by the other PhDs with finance experience. I'm not talking fanchy shmancy financial engineering. I'm talking entry level. I've got a PhD in EE from a top school, and I'm getting my ass kicked in.If the economy picks up, the story might change but for now it is total grimville. Just read the horror stories on this forum.I sugest you think long and hard before giving notice at the telco.Eric

The only difference between myself and you is that I'm not a Quant...and I've about 99% resigned to the fact I'll never get a quant position with my background...and in this economy.HOWEVER,There must be a whole wack of back-end in-house S/W development that's done in these big firms....I suspect the front-end quant work...as prestigious as it seems...is really just the tip of the iceberg here. It seems that there is some demand for people with C++ and UNIX experience....that have knowledge of some database...and a solid interest and general understanding the financial industry and all the various investment products it has to offer.Just fishing for ideas from some folks out there.Sean.

Eric , I am not better than you.I only got two phone interviews. (two big-names)For the first one, because I had not done my homework properly and actually I don't even know the exact descriptionof the post, I can't answer all the programming questions on the fly. That's all !The second one, I can answer both probl. questions but they still say I am not their perfect candidate. So againno more news ...It is so dark, everyday just sitting in my room revising some notes, now my landlord always give me pressueand want to throw me out of my room (so that she can charge higher rent). The worse is that the economyat my home-country is as bad as here. When I look at the job ad. there are no jobs at all !!!!!An Equity der. trader trainee attracts more than 500+ person so they have to short-list and short-list...I am very depressed, but waht to do except to try more applications ...So don't give up, many people are just as shit as your case.Good luck

softduck,You are right, there is a whole world of IT in Banking outside the Quant Front-Office roles (which sometimes is seperate form the IT department). Here there is the development of applications for a whole multitude of support services, i.e. confirmations, connectivity(to exchanges or other systems etc), research, operations, finance(lots of reporting systems), intranet & internet developments, you get the picture? so your C++/UNIX/Database skills are usefull. You don't need Quant/Finance experince, but it helps you will need to be what I call "financially aware" i.e. the basics of maths & accounting, willing to learn a bit of luck and all the cliches. If you get in and are ambitious, show the right aptitude and importantly are at the right place at the right time, you could go far.Thanks,Mexx.

SoftDuck >> In the context of the work you do, where does someone like myself fit in the picture?Mexx >> You are right, there is a whole world of IT in Banking outside the Quant Front-Office roles IAmEric >>It's grim dude. Everybody and their cousin wants to get into finance.I'm more or less with Mexx here; there are many many roles in finance related work, and with your experience you are certainly primed for them. The slight problem you may have is that much of the (internal) stuff is still done in COBOL so you'll need to angle at those companies developing software for financial institutions or one of the institutions with a more progressive attitude. That said there are plenty of niches out there.If you are looking to edge in one of the routes to consider is a systems integration consultancy. There are many of these guys out there with operations fitting systems together and normally pushing some of their own products at the same time. They should give you an opportunity to ease in; several of them have also telecomms outfits so maybe you can even ease over once inside.I think Eric is feeling a bit down from his interviews, it's always exhausting; the fact is he is aiming directly for quant work, where the competition is much tougher. Even so Eric, after reading your postings I cannot believe that someone won't snap you up! He is right though, everyone and their cousin does seem to trying to muscle in; even you wrote:SoftDuck >> and I've about 99% resigned to the fact I'll never get a quant position with my backgroundGiven your current background there seems no reason to angle for quant work anyway? The problem is exactly what you state, other financial work seems to have a low visibility.

I think Eric is feeling a bit down from his interviews, it's always exhausting; the fact is he is aiming directly for quant work, where the competition is much tougher. >>This is true. Sorry I was so negative in my earlier post. This job search plays havoc with your emotions. Every research group is certainly going to have some kind of a network going on and they are always in need of sys admin gurus. You're actualy not in such a bad position as I might have suggested (you just caught me at an especially low point). The best way to find out for certain is to test the waters. Send out a couple of resumes and see what happens. But if you do get serious about it, don't let yourself get down after sending tons of resumes with no (or little) response. Perserverance plays a big role in this game. If you're good enough and if you work hard enough, opportunities will open up. Make every one count.Good luck!Eric

softduck,stat-arb would be very suitable for youmany Hedge funds have a programming test and that's what they care most about

reza,What do you mean bymany Hedge funds have a programming test and that's what they care most about >>Are you saying that entry in a programming role in a hedge fund, requires on the passing of a standard programming test and not a industry specific one, is no serious bussiness knowledge required?I thought that Hedge Fund hired only the best from the Banks, those with a solid track record.Thanks,Mexx.

I mean even traders in stat-arb need to know programming to get in those hedge funds