I am a student in the CMU MSCF program. I started the program in May of 2002, took a leaveof absence in 2003 due to a family illness, and I am finishing up in 2004. The program gets positive comments from the class that I started with in May of 2002, especiallyas they went deeper into the program. The program got better as it went along and some of the profs. that where not good teachers have been replaced this year. The current class seems much happier than the class I started with.They have slowed down the C++/OOP sequence which was extremely fast for the2002 class. Now it is just fast. Same thing with the probability and statistics. Please note these classes are fast review classes, and it helps a lot to haveprogrammed in C++ and to have had junior undegrad level calculus based probabilty and statistics before entering the program. I didn't,and it has hurt me. As fast as job placement goes, everyone I know from last years class is currently employed, unlessthey decided to do a Ph.D. Everyone I know (I did not know the entire class) had jobs within three months after graduation. Out of 36 companies, 23 students ended up with the following companies. Out of the other 13, some went back overseas and I know nothing about what happened to them,and apparently 4 did not have offers 3 months after graduation, meaning 32 out of 36 did.For a look at CMU employment report for the MSCF program go tohttp://web.gsia.cmu.edu/files/Other_Files/0fda91abd1824b9eafabfa1646237ea3.htmNow for the 23 out of the 32 reported offers I knowMorgan Stanley - 3Bear Stearns - 2Citigroup - 4CSFB - 3Moodys - 4Mellon Bank (Pittsburgh) - 1Citadel Investment Group - 1Traxis Partners - 1 (New Hedge fund set up by Barton Biggs of Morgan Stanley-only 8 employeeslast I heard). Deutsche Bank - 1Bank of America - 1Price Waterhouse Coopers - 1Deloitte and Touche - 1Nobody I know went to Goldman, although GS made at least 1 offer, or to Lehman, or to JP Morgan, although JP Morgan made at least 1 offer as well.The above list is decent I think given that it was a tough job market. Recruiting will be better this year from what I can tell. Summer Internship recruiting, so farSo far 17 of 52 students seeking internships have them. Of these, 14 are official from the Career Services Office, and three friendsof mine have recently gotten job offers, though they have not yetaccepted, but I think they will. I do not knowwhere everyone is going just yet, but the major summer employersso far are, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, Blackrock, Merrill Lynch,CSFB, JP Morgan, and UBS. These firms acccount for 13 of the 17 offers that I know of. Some students have gotten two offersfrom these firms, and I am not counting these twice when I say17 out of 52 students have internships. Who is doing best in recruiting? All types, but I would sayaggressive and good American and Indian students. The Chinese students seem to be far less aggressiveor prepared for the interview process. This was the casewith last years class and seems to be true again this year.They don't seem to know the financial markets as well either.What can you to do prepare for the program?1. Know C++, both procedural programming and OOP. A good basic book would be Lafore's OOP/C++ book.Make sure you go through the whole thing becausethey go pretty fast still. Some of the students couldn't complete the assignments on time. C++ is well taught at CMU, but is is fast. Deitel's bookwould be an alternative to Lafore's, but is harderand boring. Bruce Eckel's would be a great next step to prepareif you know C++ well already.Lafore's book has answers to some of the programmingquestions in the back of the book, Deitel has a separateCD with answers to some of the programs, and so doesEckel's book. I suggest Lafore if you are weak in C++, based onmy reading of the three texts. Make sureyou understand something about pointers, inheritance,polymorphism, and encapsulation. You don't have to understandthem perfectly, but learning them for the first time at CMUis scary since they go pretty fast. 2. Review, in detail, freshman calculus, at the level of Anton or Larson. Make sure you do the problems through the entire book, especially multiple integration and partial differentiation. There are solutions manuals for these texts available to students from the publisher. Review integrations by parts, taylor series, and all sort of methods of integration. Spherical and Cylindrical stuff is not that important. 3. Linear Algebra at the level of Anton (same author as Calculus book), Elementary Linear Algebra. A solutions manual is avaliable to students from the publisher. This is not as important as reviewing calculus. 4. Review calculus based probability and statistics. This is really important, more important than linear algebra, so that you can do okay in Shreve's stochastic calculus. It is hard to find good books here. I suggest Degroot and Schervish which they use at CMU and a solutions manual is available from the publisher. For probability only, the Probability tutoring guide by Carol Ash is great. For an easier read, try Jay Devore's Prob. and Statistics for Engineering and the Sciences. A solutions manual is avaliable from the publisher. I havent read this one. Also try Probability and Stochastic Processes, A friendly introduction, By Roy Yates and David Goodman. No solutions manual is available from the publisher but they may have them at teksbook@yahoo.com E-mail them. 5. Review some Differential equations - I guess Boyce and Diprima, although everyone hates that, but I don't know any others. A solutions manual is available. 6. VBA for Modelers, by Christian Albright. Solutions to the programming assignments are on the CD that comes with the book. A second choice would be Simon Benninga's book Financial Modelling. Solutions are on the CD.If I had to rank these in importance, it would be1. Calculus2. Probability3. C++4. Diff. Eq5. Linear Algebra and VBA tie. Make sure you review calculus before doing probability. And make sure the prob/stats book you are reviewing from is calculus based, not a business undergrad prob.statsbook without an integral!!!!!!If you want to get a jump on everyone in the class,get Neftci's Math Finance book. Email him to get the solutions manual. It is a great program. I only wish I had been better prepared.It would have helped me academically and I would havebeen able to spend more time on my job search, and I would havedone better answering all these technical questiosn during interviews!!!Good luck!!!!!

Those summer internship numbers were as of 2 weeks ago.

thanks for sharingthats really informative.

Are there many courses similar to this in the UK? i.e. Masters degrees that cover areas such as quantitative trading strategies as well as how to price a derivative. The only one that I've seen is the MSc in Mathematical Trading and Finance at City, but that's just a tad too expensive for my taste/pocket.Cheers

Classical work!! I remember there was a student posted a FAQ web with similar level of details at UChicago, but I cannot find it any more. Wish there will be similar post from the students in other programs.

Hi Fxislander,Can you tell me CMU takes people without a Finance background in the MSCF programme? I applied recently and have no finance experience although I have an MBA (from a non-US school).Cheers

Yes definitely. Most of the students have a good math or good CS or good engineering or good physics background. Many knownothing about finance when they enter.The programs goal is to teach quantitatively orientatedpeople finance with a quantitative bent.It will make it harder during recruiting though unlessyou are one of the stars of the class, so startreading as much as you can about finance.Good luck.

Fxislander, I will be starting CMU MSCF in the Fall 2005. Can I contact you to ask you some questions about the program? Most notably which campus should I attend? NYC or Pittsburgh. I am still going back and forth. Is there a significant recruiting advantage to NYC?

Great news, Fxislander! Thanks for so much information.By the way, do you know how much it costs to finish the degree? How long does it last? I have a math PHD degree and would like to switch to such a program if possible. What is your opinion on this?Many thanks.Tau

Tau, The program has a website. It has all the costs associated there (+/- on cost of living).

QuoteOriginally posted by: moogleTau, The program has a website. It has all the costs associated there (+/- on cost of living).Yes, moogle. I saw the website. Thanks a lot.But three semesters' add up to $60,000? Probably too expensive for me. Seems CMU's tuition is the highest compared with others.

QuoteOriginally posted by: FxislanderI Now for the 23 out of the 32 reported offers I knowMorgan Stanley - 3Bear Stearns - 2Citigroup - 4CSFB - 3Moodys - 4Mellon Bank (Pittsburgh) - 1Citadel Investment Group - 1Traxis Partners - 1 (New Hedge fund set up by Barton Biggs of Morgan Stanley-only 8 employeeslast I heard). Deutsche Bank - 1Bank of America - 1Price Waterhouse Coopers - 1Deloitte and Touche - 1Nobody I know went to Goldman, although GS made at least 1 offer, or to Lehman, or to JP Morgan, although JP Morgan made at least 1 offer as well.What do you mean noone went to GS and JP Morgan? I know people who went there from 2004 class.In addition, Deutsche -- 2ML -- 2KBC (hedge fund) -- 1

QuoteOriginally posted by: TauQuoteOriginally posted by: moogleBut three semesters' add up to $60,000? Probably too expensive for me. 1. I took a DCF analysis and saw that it would pay back within a couple of years by a salary differential. And I didn't even count bonuses.2. If you're within the same line of job and are out of the job for less than 12 months, you can deduct taxes, so this cost effectively falls by 1/33. You should have a clear picture of why you're going there, and what you're buying yourself with these 60K. And it is far different from goals from an MBA

FXislander where do you recommend I take the program. In NYC or in Pittsburgh?

FXislander can you put me in touch with alum's that work in credit derivative trading? Also pls send over those articles. I will purchase those books you mentioned. Thanks for your help.My email address is km279@columbia.edu. Thx.