QuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveone should devote 12-plus hours a day to a financial job, or whether a more leisurely-creative life should be led. That is a completely different debate. Yes, this is what I meant as "the catch". First, you have to surrender your free time, relocate to a large city, and adopt the religion of worshipping money, fancy restaurants, and business travel. This is the first catch. On top of this, there is another catch. The second catch is the intense rat race. Think about the high turnover (and burnout) rates, and and what happens to the poor people who turn over. Do they land in a happy life?

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveone should devote 12-plus hours a day to a financial job, or whether a more leisurely-creative life should be led. That is a completely different debate. Yes, this is what I meant as "the catch". First, you have to surrender your free time, relocate to a large city, and adopt the religion of worshipping money, fancy restaurants, and business travel. This is the first catch. On top of this, there is another catch. The second catch is the intense rat race. Think about the high turnover (and burnout) rates, and and what happens to the poor people who turn over. Do they land in a happy life?Whine, whine, whine. What a weiner .

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveone should devote 12-plus hours a day to a financial job, or whether a more leisurely-creative life should be led. That is a completely different debate. Yes, this is what I meant as "the catch". First, you have to surrender your free time, relocate to a large city, and adopt the religion of worshipping money, fancy restaurants, and business travel. This is the first catch. On top of this, there is another catch. The second catch is the intense rat race. Think about the high turnover (and burnout) rates, and and what happens to the poor people who turn over. Do they land in a happy life?Yours is a pretty negative message. To leave an IB doesn't imply that you stop liking money, fancy restaurants, and business travel. In fact, some very ambitious people will leave IB precisely because it doesn't give them a big enough platform to shine. These are people who want to make even more money in a more stimulating environment or who are looking for more creative settings (some IB professionals can be quite dull).As for the "rat race", that is present at all levels of society. Don't you think academics embark on a rat race daily? They only difference is that in that case the stakes are much much lower.You seem to advocate a hippy, no-work type of existence. Excuse my apparent patronizing, but that philosophy will not get you (or anybody else) far in the derivatives business (or in any other business for that matter).And let me get you in a little secret: many people at IB work less hours than other professions that pay 5% of what IB pays....

QuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveAnd let me get you in a little secret: many people at IB work less hours than other professions that pay 5% of what IB pays.... Sir, your argument only buttresses my point. If you ask an IBer what he likes about his job, he will (if he's honest) tell you that he likes the money, the bonuses, the restaurants, and the money. Money money money. In what other job is money the *ONLY* reward? If you ask a doctor, he will say he likes the satisfaction of helping others, professional accomplishment, AND money. If you ask a scientist, he will say he loves learning about nature or that he loves teaching, and, why, he'd do it for free as a hobby. If you ask a writer, he will say he finds joy and identity in his work -- even if he never writes that best-seller. If you ask a policeman, he will say that he loves the "action" or helping to maintain law and order. If you ask a programmer or engineer, he will say he derives satisfaction from making something that works AND getting paid to do it well. But in IB, money is the only reward -- there's nothing else!

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveAnd let me get you in a little secret: many people at IB work less hours than other professions that pay 5% of what IB pays.... Sir, your argument only buttresses my point. If you ask an IBer what he likes about his job, he will (if he's honest) tell you that he likes the money, the bonuses, the restaurants, and the money. Money money money. In what other job is money the *ONLY* reward? If you ask a doctor, he will say he likes the satisfaction of helping others, professional accomplishment, AND money. If you ask a scientist, he will say he loves learning about nature or that he loves teaching, and, why, he'd do it for free as a hobby. If you ask a writer, he will say he finds joy and identity in his work -- even if he never writes that best-seller. If you ask a policeman, he will say that he loves the "action" or helping to maintain law and order. If you ask a programmer or engineer, he will say he derives satisfaction from making something that works AND getting paid to do it well. But in IB, money is the only reward -- there's nothing else!The standard answer to this is that without I.B's and therefore investment bankers, businesses could not raise the capital required to fund their projects which benefit the consumers, employees and shareholders.

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveAnd let me get you in a little secret: many people at IB work less hours than other professions that pay 5% of what IB pays.... Sir, your argument only buttresses my point. If you ask an IBer what he likes about his job, he will (if he's honest) tell you that he likes the money, the bonuses, the restaurants, and the money. Money money money. In what other job is money the *ONLY* reward? If you ask a doctor, he will say he likes the satisfaction of helping others, professional accomplishment, AND money. If you ask a scientist, he will say he loves learning about nature or that he loves teaching, and, why, he'd do it for free as a hobby. If you ask a writer, he will say he finds joy and identity in his work -- even if he never writes that best-seller. If you ask a policeman, he will say that he loves the "action" or helping to maintain law and order. If you ask a programmer or engineer, he will say he derives satisfaction from making something that works AND getting paid to do it well. But in IB, money is the only reward -- there's nothing else!The standard answer to this is that without I.B's and therefore investment bankers, businesses could not raise the capital required to fund their projects which benefit the consumers, employees and shareholders.Nice job keeping a straight face. I thought you would burst out laughing before you got to the end of the sentence. Join an IB and help humanity? You can't be serious.

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveAnd let me get you in a little secret: many people at IB work less hours than other professions that pay 5% of what IB pays.... Sir, your argument only buttresses my point. If you ask an IBer what he likes about his job, he will (if he's honest) tell you that he likes the money, the bonuses, the restaurants, and the money. Money money money. In what other job is money the *ONLY* reward? If you ask a doctor, he will say he likes the satisfaction of helping others, professional accomplishment, AND money. If you ask a scientist, he will say he loves learning about nature or that he loves teaching, and, why, he'd do it for free as a hobby. If you ask a writer, he will say he finds joy and identity in his work -- even if he never writes that best-seller. If you ask a policeman, he will say that he loves the "action" or helping to maintain law and order. If you ask a programmer or engineer, he will say he derives satisfaction from making something that works AND getting paid to do it well. But in IB, money is the only reward -- there's nothing else!The standard answer to this is that without I.B's and therefore investment bankers, businesses could not raise the capital required to fund their projects which benefit the consumers, employees and shareholders.Nice job keeping a straight face. I thought you would burst out laughing before you got to the end of the sentence. Join an IB and help humanity? You can't be serious.Well, at least I'm working and earning my keep without exploiting anyone...Damn- just about made it. That one was a bridge too far...

You've got to talk to more IBers. They are a more diverse bunch than the ones you've met. Or maybe the ones you've met who aren't "honest" and admitting they like money, are actually being honest and you've completely missed the plot!

QuoteOriginally posted by: FrasheYou've got to talk to more IBers. They are a more diverse bunch than the ones you've met. Or maybe the ones you've met who aren't "honest" and admitting they like money, are actually being honest and you've completely missed the plot!You mean they're lying?

No, I mean the one who Kack Toodles thinks are lying because they say they aren't in the game just for the money.Now don't get me wrong, money's nice. But many people are in the game 'cos it's fun, and if there's lots of things you can do that's fun, why not do the one where the money's best, which usually has to be some form of finance. But that doesn't mean they're in it for the money. If it wasn't fun to start with they wouldn't do it.And many of us are quite content to be doing good for humanity by being a small knuckle in Adam Smith's invisible hand - bringing about the greater good by acting in our own self interest. And I'll smile while I say it . The money's a nice side effect.

QuoteOriginally posted by: FrasheNo, I mean the one who Kack Toodles thinks are lying because they say they aren't in the game just for the money.Now don't get me wrong, money's nice. But many people are in the game 'cos it's fun, and if there's lots of things you can do that's fun, why not do the one where the money's best, which usually has to be some form of finance. But that doesn't mean they're in it for the money. If it wasn't fun to start with they wouldn't do it.And many of us are quite content to be doing good for humanity by being a small knuckle in Adam Smith's invisible hand - bringing about the greater good by acting in our own self interest. And I'll smile while I say it . The money's a nice side effect.It's what you do with the money that counts.

TJ... couldn't agree more! 911 twin turbo pls and thank ya!

KackToodles... did it ever dawn on u that finance is a job that invlolves wealth?!?!? if ur not fascinated with the economy, with markets and with money then u shouldn't be in IB. just like a doctor is interested in healing, or a policeman in protecting or a poet in writing... IBs are interested in wealth creation. it is an art, whether u wish to admit it or not, but we must face the facts, being a merchant of any kind has never been a respected aspect of humanity. but i can understand where ur coming from... people tend to shun what they don't understand or can't do well.

like a doctor is interested in healingumm, I would suggest that doctors are also motivated by salaries

QuoteOriginally posted by: oakgroveLook it's really quite simple. For all you pure quant people out there, leave your prejudices at the door and focus on what matters: your life and your career.Will a quant degree give you the following?- Possibility to interview with EVERY single top investment bank plus most likely also hedge funds and asset managers- $10000-plus a month summer internship including luxury apartment and regular dinners at the top local restaurants, plus possibly a summer-end bonus of $15000-$20000- $25000-$75000 sign-on bonus for full time position, plus $10000 rellocation package plus free luxury apartment until you find your own- guaranteed minimum year-end bonus- front desk role with the possibility of it being very high profile - possible tuition reimbursement plan (not that it matters anyway, since your b-school got you a 30-year low interest loan that can be paid with no sweat)To renounce to all that simply because you want to do numerical analysis in some dusty math building would be, well, insane.Plus, please get it once and for all, true quants need a PhD.Some quant degrees are now almost as expensive as MBAs, plus only option to finance it if you are foreigner is private loan ($1000 a month after graduation).Again, my advice: if you really really really want to do quant degree go to a top b-school or a program that has proven top-notch MBA-caliber placement stats.I don't know much about these wages, but to me it look very similar to "Earn £££s in your spare time" etc, and I find it hard to fight down the "if it looks too good to be true - it probably is" feeling.I've never seen a quant degree half as expensive as an MBA, for a start an MBA is twice as long. But the point is can you guarantee this? Bearing in mind most students are pretty skint after their first degree, and you have to eat.Of course everything is a gamble in this kind of thing, but where on earth do you find the money for an MBA, borrow it? Last I looked you are talking ~£30k, as opposed to £15k tops for MSc, and as little as £5k. Secondly you spend 2 years hard training for something, rather than 1 year doing a hobby. All on the gamble of some mythical sounding wages?I suppose were it possible to get a bank to offer you these before hand... ...then everyone would do it!On a related note, how does experiance rank against these. Would 2 years experiance not be better than 2 years MBA? I ditched the PhD idea because I decided 3 years experiance would be better than PhD... ...was I silly?