I had decided to take the admission of Oxford before the pack of Columbia arrived yesterday. MSc in Mathematical and Computational Finance in Oxford andMSc in Engineering Management Systems in ColumbiaThe name of the previous one attracts me more. But as a fresh new program, there is much uncertainty of it: quality of education, connection to the industry, and Oxford's career service. Moreover, getting a job in London is very hard for a Chinese guy without work experience, as many people have told me. Is it so hard to have a job in IB in the year after the program that I have to head for the other side of Atlantic?

What I don't yet understand is why you have this pair of options.Columbia is a good school, but it's a radically different degree with only marginal relevance to investment banking. It does talk about credit cards and that sort of thing, but that is for retail banking.If you were asking about Cass vs Oxford, or Baruch or Warwick or Imperial then it would be an interesting question. I have a slight worry that you haven't decided what you want to do, and what you are best at.What was your first degree ?If I may speak frankly about Chinese people applying for jobs, the thing I notice is a lower ability in spoken English than any other group, some phone conversations are close to futile. Written English is usually good, but interviews are mostly spoken.This is a self inflicted wound.One expects someone educated in an English speaking country to speak competently.Because there are so many Chinese people at most universities they form their own social groups, and so their development is very seriously slowed down.I'm crap at languages, so would do the same thing if I were studying in China, but I'm lucky enough to speak English for free.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCIf I may speak frankly about Chinese people applying for jobs, the thing I notice is a lower ability in spoken English than any other group, some phone conversations are close to futile. I believe that people who are articulate in one language would also be articulate in a second language. Even if one's vocabulary might be highly restricted in a second language, articulate people have a keen sense of what is clear and organized communication and so they can still make themselves understood with a restricted vocab. Thus I am willing to bet that the people who you come across with extremely poor english communication skills would also be poor communicators in their native language. If they can't form comprehensible english sentences, it's a reflection that they don't think in logical sentences, which suggests that they likely lack a decent sense of what constitutes good communication generally. Another interesting question is, why would someone with poor english communication skills try to make it in london as an investment banker when, next to law, investment banking is the one field the requires the highest level of communication ability?! This makes sense only if said person with the poor communication doesn't have a clue that his communication is poor.

QuoteOriginally posted by: KackToodlesQuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCIf I may speak frankly about Chinese people applying for jobs, the thing I notice is a lower ability in spoken English than any other group, some phone conversations are close to futile. I believe that people who are articulate in one language would also be articulate in a second language. Even if one's vocabulary might be highly restricted in a second language, articulate people have a keen sense of what is clear and organized communication and so they can still make themselves understood with a restricted vocab. Thus I am willing to bet that the people who you come across with extremely poor english communication skills would also be poor communicators in their native language. If they can't form comprehensible english sentences, it's a reflection that they don't think in logical sentences, which suggests that they likely lack a decent sense of what constitutes good communication generally. Another interesting question is, why would someone with poor english communication skills try to make it in london as an investment banker when, next to law, investment banking is the one field the requires the highest level of communication ability?! This makes sense only if said person with the poor communication doesn't have a clue that his communication is poor.Communication skill is different from communication using another language. For one person, you may say that his/her poor English reflects the poor communication skills. But for a large group of people, things are different. It's only the matter of language. Your first sentence was wrong. People will improve the skills of speaking under many circumstances. Abraham Lincoln was once stuttering but he won the presidential election, which required more communication skills than investment banking. People from overseas will also succeed.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCWhat I don't yet understand is why you have this pair of options.If you were asking about Cass vs Oxford, or Baruch or Warwick or Imperial then it would be an interesting question. I have a slight worry that you haven't decided what you want to do, and what you are best at.What was your first degree ?My first degree is BSc in Physics. What I want to do is quant in IB in which field many Physics PhDs are involved. As my interest is not in physics any more, I am very glad that Oxford has offered me an admission to this master's degree. But when I considered the job market for non-EU students in London and UK, I felt it a little risky to pursue the MSc in Oxford (maybe I should buy an unemployment insurance forehead ). On the other hand, Columbia offers a more grouded career perspective, though the work may not my most favourite. MSc is a large investment for me and for my family. If the question turns into 'unemployment vs employment', I would choose the latter.

It's not a vocabulary issue, it's pronunciation. To be sure, they don't have a fine grasp of idiom and slang, but I don't care about that.When they have to say the name of their thesis 4 times before I can guess what it is, that is a problem for us both.As for people from overseas succeeding, my guess that on our database rather greater than 50% of people are working in a different country to the one of their both.But success is scalar, not a boolean.Just because you get a job, doesn't mean it's the best you personally could possibly get.Banks often use brainteasers as part of their initial screen, and often this happens on the phone, which degrades communication still further.I have no reason to think that Chinese people are on average better or worse than everyone else at BTs but I know for a fact that even native English speakers oftenmisunderstand the question. If you don't get the question into your head well, no way is it going to come out correctly. Also if the interviewer has to struggle to understand the answer he is not going to have a positive view on whether he wants to work with someone with whom he can't communicate. I'm a Brit and so use the word "whom", most Brits don't even get that pedantic bit of grammar right, but they get the message across.

Did it take a long time before they could give u an answer @ oxford?I've just applied for the 18th of May gathered field and I hope they'll give me a response before the end of June.By the way, did you have an interview before u're admission?

I only have anecdotal 2/3rd hand knowledge of the Oxford process, but from what I hear, they give relatively quick answers for those who definitely fit the profile, then as the deadline approaches then suck in others.One reason for noise in this model is that their admin is widely criticised, even by those who are fans of the course, so I would counsel you to chase up to make sure your application is in the right pile.

Yeah the application process sucks....its kinda hard to chase up a paper application. Actually, they told me that they still have few places and that i should have a chance of success viewing my profile...But everything depend on the transcript....Do you think that they will consider my one year internship as a Quant Risk ?Thx

I don't know how much practical experience counts for you, but as a pimp I can at least reassure you that it will help getting a job.What's plan B ?

mmm good question...Plan B was Tanaka Msc Finance, I've got an offer, but they are beeing gay with the equivalence of my degree (ECTS etc..)...and maybe I'll apply to LSE for some degree...I havent decided yet ...maybe Risk and Stochastics (with no referees) to give some rest to my referees .....Or Plan C : stay in France and do the Master's degree of my school which is well regarded in IB in the UK and also Free...but I want to move a little before starting to work.and u? did u apply somewehere?

QuoteOriginally posted by: drissationmmm good question...and u? did u apply somewehere?Are you asking whether DCFC has applied to an MSc programme?

Oh....Sorry kinda new on this forum ....ok I just saw the joined in "July 2002" .Besides, are there any other applicants to Oxford?

QuoteOriginally posted by: StephenLiQuoteOriginally posted by: drissationmmm good question...and u? did u apply somewehere?Are you asking whether DCFC has applied to an MSc programme? LOL!!