maybe it was more of trader assistant role, though it was part of PC... i've seen a few firms with trader assistant roles lasting for 12 to 18months...

on my desk some people do make it here from PC, some from MBA (summer internships) and the rest with prior experience

YldTarn:1) What are some rules to observe in calibarting the models ? eg. local vol stochastic vol i don't need the maths there are papers i want to know the pragamtic stuff (waht strikes/maturity to include int he matrxi, anything to watch out) when the models will blow up , waht's the limitation of these models from exotic tradig point of view ?2) What is risk rotaion ?3) Why the exotic risk are far from intutiion ? any example>>I've been working on IR exotic desk for quite a while and never see any product control guys who can make this move. Exotic risks are far >>from intuition in many cases - it depends on too many details - how you calibrate models, how you do risk rotations, how you deal with >>noises. All good exotic traders understand this very well. In my bank, all the big guys on exotic side spent certain time as quants before >>but never as product controllers. StatTrader: are you working on this industry?

How about an MFE graduate? Is MFE a right path to be a trader?

QuoteOriginally posted by: StatTraderThe most direct route to a trading position is via an MBA program. A pretty sizable percentage of traders also make it via a stint in product control. As surprising as it may seem, most traders (even those trading exotics) don't have a particularly strong quantitative background..No no no. Really, this is so far from true. An MBA is a very bad choice if you want to trade. It shows that you have failed in your first attempt at a career, and are having to try to reinvent yourself. All the exotics guys I know have degrees in a quantitative subject, and none have MBAs.Also, I cannot think of a worse route in than product control. I have never seen anyone make the move into exotic trading from it.I genuinely can't understand how you can have spent long in the city, yet have formed views so diametrically opposed to what I have seen.

NJ : Do u think having a PhD will work for or against you if u want to move to trading?

MFE is similar to MBA in nature too ...except the study contents are more technical. People also using MFE to move into finance wherelse MBA is more diversified.QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: StatTraderThe most direct route to a trading position is via an MBA program. A pretty sizable percentage of traders also make it via a stint in product control. As surprising as it may seem, most traders (even those trading exotics) don't have a particularly strong quantitative background..No no no. Really, this is so far from true. An MBA is a very bad choice if you want to trade. It shows that you have failed in your first attempt at a career, and are having to try to reinvent yourself. All the exotics guys I know have degrees in a quantitative subject, and none have MBAs.Also, I cannot think of a worse route in than product control. I have never seen anyone make the move into exotic trading from it.I genuinely can't understand how you can have spent long in the city, yet have formed views so diametrically opposed to what I have seen.

MFE is similar to MBA in nature too ...except the study contents are more technical. People also using MFE to move into finance wherelse MBA is more diversified.QuoteOriginally posted by: NorthernJohnQuoteOriginally posted by: StatTraderThe most direct route to a trading position is via an MBA program. A pretty sizable percentage of traders also make it via a stint in product control. As surprising as it may seem, most traders (even those trading exotics) don't have a particularly strong quantitative background..No no no. Really, this is so far from true. An MBA is a very bad choice if you want to trade. It shows that you have failed in your first attempt at a career, and are having to try to reinvent yourself. All the exotics guys I know have degrees in a quantitative subject, and none have MBAs.Also, I cannot think of a worse route in than product control. I have never seen anyone make the move into exotic trading from it.I genuinely can't understand how you can have spent long in the city, yet have formed views so diametrically opposed to what I have seen.

QuoteOriginally posted by: pgeekNJ : Do u think having a PhD will work for or against you if u want to move to trading?Hard to generalise, but it worked well for me, and I think it is becoming more and more desireable.At worst, it is irrelevant, I would say. It would be a very rare person nowadays who would hold it against you. Even the dyed in the wool old-school types understand that the world is changing, and that your PhD suggests that you could help them.On the flip side, you could make it a handicap if you assume that it is worth too much. Your PhD is an indicator of a capability and drive that you night have, but is not worth a cent on its own, so please don't make the mistake of acting like it deserves to get you treated specialy.I coasted a bit because of mine many years ago, and it cost me for a while.

I can't speak for exotics, but I will say it depends on a number of things, probably most importantly the culture of the shop. At my shop, lots of people have moved from product control, and more specifically, I moved from risk management. I'd say the most important aspect would be building your rapport with traders and showing your interest and aptitude. Trading exotics seems much more technical, so my guess is exposure to the models and specific issues counts for a lot as well. I will say that at least four people of fifteen or so from my analyst class (risk management) have eventually moved into a trading role of some sort.

Quote[No no no. Really, this is so far from true. An MBA is a very bad choice if you want to trade. It shows that you have failed in your first attempt at a career, and are having to try to reinvent yourself. All the exotics guys I know have degrees in a quantitative subject, and none have MBAs.Also, I cannot think of a worse route in than product control. I have never seen anyone make the move into exotic trading from it.I genuinely can't understand how you can have spent long in the city, yet have formed views so diametrically opposed to what I have seen.Regarding product control, I was talking about trading positions in general rather than exotics. Having said that, I do know an IR exotics desk head who came up via that route. Maybe in Europe, product control really is populated by 9-5 P&L monkeys, but in the US very often those graduates who fail to get on the MBA programme end up taking positions in PC.

maybe it is a NY London difference then.... Most of the guys I know have just excelled in quantitative courses and then taken junior trading positions.

Sorry for the question but what is CFQ?

Hi YldTarn:(or others)1) What are some rules to observe in calibarting the models ? eg. local vol stochastic vol i don't need the maths there are papers i want to know the pragamtic stuff (waht strikes/maturity to include int he matrxi, anything to watch out) when the models will blow up , waht's the limitation of these models from exotic tradig point of view ?2) What is risk rotaion ?3) Why the exotic risk are far from intutiion ? any example>>I've been working on IR exotic desk for quite a while and never see any product control guys who can make this move. Exotic risks are far >>from intuition in many cases - it depends on too many details - how you calibrate models, how you do risk rotations, how you deal with >>noises. All good exotic traders understand this very well. In my bank, all the big guys on exotic side spent certain time as quants before >>but never as product controllers. StatTrader: are you working on this industry?

any one ?