Hi,I originally posted this query on the general forum but now that i am more familiar with the forum structure i think that it is more appropiate here.I'm enrolling on the Birkbeck part time 2 year MFE in September and wondered if anyone had followed the same course either full time or part time.I would be interested in impressions of the course and what course options were taken. Furthermore, i work in IT at the moment and am looking at the MSc to augment my skill set within IT and enable me to communicate with quants in a more meaningful form rather than transfer to quant role.Any comments or views from people who have done this course and how it has affected their careers would also be welcomeThanks

HiI'm coming up to finishing this course P/T- same background as you (IT guy) with aspirations to do something more quantitative. However what puzzles me is that you don't want to move out of IT. Its an awfully expensive way to communicate better with quants. If you plan on remaining in IT you are unlikely to ever discuss Feynman-Kac, Martingale theory or time series analysis with quants. You'll at best be implementing software to call libraries that quants have written. Save your money and read Hull or PWIQF to stay in IT and talk to quants clearly. As an aside the course itself should you choose to continue with it is very good in my opinion - I have no regrets about doing it. Like all schools it has some awful lecturers (xxxx) - and some fantastic ones (Brad Baxter, Helyette Geman and Steve Ohana). I also thoroughly recommend doing the commodities option - its a unique selling point of the birkbeck course and I don't think there is a course like it anywhere else. On the minus side I feel reputationally birkbeck is undervalued among certain headhunters. Its a shame because from what I've seen the content of the material is on par with other highly valued schools. I don't yet know how it is perceived in general among actual employers perhaps DCFC can give a more well-informed view. Another area where birkbeck seems to fall short is its links with industry. I've heard of people doing the oxford math fin msc getting emails from exotics trading desks trying to poach them as they are coming up to finish. I don't know how true this is but I am not being inundated with such mails at birkbeck. I can't tell you how its affected my career yet as I haven't used it in anger yet. I'm optimistic though and I'd rather have this msc than not have it in the current climate. Along with MFE devaluation I am hearing more and more frequently that a masters is becoming the minimum to break into front office.Not sure I've answered your question but hope this helps.

QuoteOriginally posted by: lytesaberHiI'm coming up to finishing this course P/T- same background as you (IT guy) with aspirations to do something more quantitative. However what puzzles me is that you don't want to move out of IT.I think phil451 is being realistic. Whoever heard of a quant with an MSc? I'm serious.

Actually I know quants who only have undergrad degrees.phil451 is following a rational path here, (if I make some assumptions about his background)With my headhunter hat on, I think lytesaber has hit a point about careers help at Birkbeck. I am not at all sure there even is such an activity in any useful form.

Hi,Thank you for your responses, they have been useful and interesting. In all truthfullness i have a slightly longer and more varied CV then i let on. I spent the first 17 years of my working life as a futures and options broker and then moved into a software house implementing trading systems where i picked up some programming skills and developed an interest in pricing models. While humping a laptop around Europe i did a Maths degree with an emphasis on modelling and statistics in the hotel room in the evening. I then left the software house and worked on a Risk and PnL system in the credit trading area of a tier one investment bank which put close contact with quants as i spent a lot of time implementing various models into the system. I've read most of the Hull and Wilmott books and this has just served to increase my interest further. I would like to work with these models full time which is why i have signed up for the course as i see this as my only route in. However, i am 45 and although i'm not completely decrepit just yet i know that doesn't look great on my CV. That said, the UK's premier translator of Russian to English literature didn't learn to speak Russsian until she was 56, so there is always hope and i think that anyone should always follow what drives them on regardless of their age.

phil451 - right on.Dominic - care to give a precise definition of quant. I think you have a broader range in mind than I. In fact I haven't spoken to a single recruiter who says the IB or hedge fund is looking for someone with good C++ knowledge, stochastic calculus, pde, numerical analysis and a BSc. No, just aint happening. PhD maybe, but not a BSc.

lytesaber, re: birkbeck's reputation in the city.i have the quite same sentiment, it seems birkbeck really suffers name/branding wise, regardless of its excellent and mathematically rigorous course content.Top finance programmes in the city seems to be:1a: oxbridge, LSE1b: imperial, warwick2a: cass2b and the rest: Edinburgh, birkbeck, bath, birmingham... etcthis is really unfortunate as the top ones doesn't seem to offer a part-time option...dominic, can you shed more light on birkbeck's reputation in the city from a professional HH pov...

Dominic - care to give a precise definition of quant.That's a good question TJ, and I'm not going to answer it.I don't think there is any useful definition from the perspective from the point of view of anyone caught in the job hunting process.I've seen people with quant on their business card who were poorly paid Excel jockeys. In one incident, someone I know demanded that he have quant in his job title, to replace one that implied he was some sort of assistant accountant. They refused, he quit.Some people boss quants around having been quants themselves. At what point do you stop calling yourself a quant ? Last time I saw Bill Gates official job title, he still had "programmer" on it. Paul Wilmott famously doesn't give people business cards.It is certainly the case that "quant" typically adds to your pay, and may often push you into a different, better bonus pool, than people with similar skills.To me this implies that "quant" is an aspiration, and maybe a badge of pride, but does it form a useful part of a job description ?I read many CVs working as "quants", and find no universal common characteristic that has useful predictive power.Sometime it only matters in terms of bonus pool, and the way that some people won't take jobs unless the Q word is prominent in the conversation."In fact I haven't spoken to a single recruiter who says the IB or hedge fund is looking for someone with good C++ knowledge, stochastic calculus, pde, numerical analysis and a BSc"That's because you've been talking to literal minded recruiters.Looking at my database, I'd say roughly 30% of those earning >£200K last year appear to have no qualification beyond undergraduate degree.I assert that if you work in London/NY/Chicago and last year got <£200K you aren't a "quant" .You might be a trainee quant, a quant developer or working your way out of model validation, but if you pointed a gun at my head and force me to define "quant" objectively, I'd pick money as part of it.Indeed there seems to be an interesting correlation between the very top earners and not having a PhD.But of course I inevitably suffer from sample bias and serious levels of noise in the data.However, I tend to use a cosmology analogy here.As one looks away up the earnings curve, one is also looking at what has been the way of moving up in the past.Also, as you get further from objects we can reach out and touch, our ability to spot subtle things goes down. If Quasars or Pulsars were low energy events we would not even know they were there. Indeed, most pulsars drop below our ability to detect at range quite quickly compared to stellar lifetimes.Thus knowing that X made a big pile of money by doing Y is of course useful, but remember your sample bias, just as I always remember mine.Also the bigger the star, the shorter it's life expectancy...If you read the guide, you will know I have been saying this for a long time before the recent troubles.That does not mean that their experience is useless, but that your experience is guaranteed to be different.

QuoteIndeed there seems to be an interesting correlation between the very top earners and not having a PhD.This dosn't surprise me. As you point out past recruitment trends are a factor here. I feel in the future there will be more top earners with higher qualifications than BSc, perhaps even with PhD. There will certainly be a qualification inflation going forward.SG

Am about to start the part time FE at Birkbeck next year and I have a question for you.I have a degree in Economics and I m working at the moment as a Market Risk Analyst for a top 1 bank in London.(1 1/2 year)My statistics and time series analysis are very basic and I have to admit that my mathematical skills are not good as well. My degree was qualitative focused.I m wondering how hard will be the course for me? from your experienceI m not planning for a quant career but probably for a Structuring or Sales position. Do you reckon that this degree will be not that usefull at all ?Thanks for your answers..

Financial Engineering at BBK is much more mathematically focused than Finance or Finance&Commodities.If you now find yourself struggling (since term has started), try switching. I particularly recommend commodities. Many of the exam questions are 'discuss' or 'describe' rather than 'prove'.