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sheylings
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Joined: April 27th, 2006, 12:12 pm

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August 20th, 2008, 10:04 am

Right,Four years out of uni (Mathematics and Economics at Warwick - top notch; and enjoyed every minute of it in particular the intellectual challenge). Then joined corporate finance with Big4 and now have two years' diligence experience and two years' mergers & acquisitions experience and a couple of qualifications - CA (chartered accountant) and CFQ (corporate finance qualification) - not worth the paper they're written on in my mind - easy exams that require simple regurgitation. Now I'm bored - rarely stimulated other than the odd complex leveraged finance model - and am after something different that will tick those boxes.So:1) Is the BSc enough to start a career at the desk? In my mind the Warwick's BSc will outweigh many lesser Uni's MScs.2) Is the MSc at Warwick (all £18k of it) or anywhere else for that matter, worth doing?Thanks to all in advance.
 
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Maursh
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Joined: August 24th, 2005, 10:16 am

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August 20th, 2008, 2:03 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: sheylingsRight,1) Is the BSc enough to start a career at the desk? In my mind the Warwick's BSc will outweigh many lesser Uni's MScs.2) Is the MSc at Warwick (all £18k of it) or anywhere else for that matter, worth doing?1) Which desk? The Warwick BSc may well outweigh many MSc courses but anyone reviewing your CV probably won't know the difference. It seems to me that in today's market with the ubiquitiousness of the graduate, an MSc is the new BSc. So if my humble opinion, yes you will probably need a Masters.2) You don't mention what the MSc at Warwick is in - Mathematical Finance (?). If you don't like the price then look at MSc Statistics. The material is often similar (particularly if there is a strong stochastic processes element) but generally more rigorous technically and also considerably cheaper. Have you looked at any other courses other than Warwick (LSE, Imperial, Oxford)? Have you considered doing the masters on a part-time basis? There are many institutions in London (CASS, City, LBS, Birkbeck LSE?) which have evening lectures and clearly the opportunity cost involved is considerably reduced. In addition, with your background, have you considered moving into tax accountancy? I come across an awful lot of oxbridge maths grads who end up doing that. I don't know anything about it other than it seems to be quite lucrative and for some reason they need maths bods to do it!
 
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sheylings
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Joined: April 27th, 2006, 12:12 pm

Time for a change?

August 20th, 2008, 2:40 pm

Maursh,Many thanks for your reply.Disappointing to hear that potential future employers don't see the value in a good BSc over a mediocre MSc. The cost doesn't detract, but the neccessity does! I know the lecturers well at Warwick and got on well with them so would be keen to do it there - and yes, it would be fin math.I have a strong programming background (soft dev at ftse 50 engingeering co - c++/ vb/ vba) so was thinking quant/ trading desk. Both very different, although equally, both different from current long term project work that I'm doing at the moment.As for tax... why they need mathmos is beyond me. Three numbers; 18; 28; 17.5 being cap gains; corporation and value added tax respectively! Little interest, even if well paid.As always, any comments, opinions and the like much appreciated.S
 
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penguina
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Joined: August 17th, 2008, 11:36 pm

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August 20th, 2008, 2:43 pm

forget tax consultancy, I hear it is rather boring. I'd get into insolvency. There'll be plenty of work and the fees are wonderfulhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/j ... Insolvency is a licence to print money. Practitioners are paid before any creditor and can charge more than £600 for an hour's work. They do not owe a "duty of care" to all stakeholders affected by their practices, and that provides plenty of incentives to prolong insolvencies. Both Maxwell Communication Corporation plc (looted by Robert Maxwell) and the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) began liquidation proceedings in 1991. Neither has been finalised, but MCC plc has generated £88m in fees for the insolvency practitioners and BCCI's liquidators have collected over £400m. Nor are these cases unusual. Almost 5,000 companies where the administration or liquidation process began between 10 and fifteen years ago , and 12,571 companies where the administration or liquidation process began more than 15 years ago are not finalised.
 
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AbhiJ
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Joined: August 5th, 2008, 11:29 am

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August 20th, 2008, 3:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: sheylingsRight,Four years out of uni (Mathematics and Economics at Warwick - top notch; and enjoyed every minute of it in particular the intellectual challenge). Then joined corporate finance with Big4 and now have two years' diligence experience and two years' mergers & acquisitions experience and a couple of qualifications - CA (chartered accountant) and CFQ (corporate finance qualification) - not worth the paper they're written on in my mind - easy exams that require simple regurgitation. Now I'm bored - rarely stimulated other than the odd complex leveraged finance model - and am after something different that will tick those boxes.So:1) Is the BSc enough to start a career at the desk? In my mind the Warwick's BSc will outweigh many lesser Uni's MScs.2) Is the MSc at Warwick (all £18k of it) or anywhere else for that matter, worth doing?Thanks to all in advance.Sorry to be blunt but if you are so interested in quant finance then why it took you four years to figure out that.Is it because you are bored by your present detail oriented work and want to shift to something more cerebral.You need to answer what do you find boring in your present job? Is it 1.) lack of intellectual stimulation or 2.) are you bored by detail orientation.If 1.) do an Math Fin and get into structuring(bit of everything like M&A) or trading. 2.) Get an MBA and do some managerial stuff.
 
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barny
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August 20th, 2008, 5:04 pm

I think you need to be a little less cocksure my friend. Warwick is a good school but it doesn't render other Universities MSc's useless. Your work experience isn't quantitative at all. You could certainly make the move to IB Corp Fin, but if you want to move into a more quantitative role you are effectively at square 1. You need to firstly decide what it exactly it is you want to do, and we can advise from there, because wanting to move into trading is very different from wanting to move into quant finance, with your background.
 
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Maursh
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Joined: August 24th, 2005, 10:16 am

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August 20th, 2008, 6:53 pm

How about looking at the Quant Developer roles if your programming is up to it? I understand that it used to be easier to "get in" that way, although market conditions may have changed.I am certainly no expert on this, but I suspect that you will probably need a mathematical finance / financial engineering masters and then leverage the " odd complex leveraged finance model" that you have experience with for good measure.