Should he come out to face his shipmen? Say something whatever, either congrat or sorry? Where is he?

why should he care about shipmen? he's duty is to shareholders.

sorry, i misspoke. i am a shareholder too, and a former shipman, and i've been trying to hear his side story. do you know where he is?

QuoteOriginally posted by: jjyusorry, i misspoke. i am a shareholder too, and a former shipman, and i've been trying to hear his side story. do you know where he is?he's probably drinking in his basement

It seems once again we and leaders may not share the same interest! Sad, isn't it? There are tons of reasons to rationale his actions, or inaction, but simply put, the shareholders and shipmen have lost. Should we express our condolence to his own loss?

QuoteOriginally posted by: jjyuIt seems once again we and leaders may not share the same interest! Sad, isn't it? There are tons of reasons to rationale his actions, or inaction, but simply put, the shareholders and shipmen have lost. Should we express our condolence to his own loss?u r being emotional. i think u referring to agency issue here.however, it's very possible that he simply made a mistake. it happens.

Yesterday one of my co-workers told me that his friend from Lehman told him to watch out for "jumpers". I was rather sceptical about investment bankers being so emotional as to jump out of the windows, but now I see it's quite possible.....

QuoteOriginally posted by: Yurabut now I see it's quite possible.....what makes u think so?i dont worry about jumpers. i'd worry about "slashers"

emotional? yes i can't help it. but life goes on.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jjyuemotional? yes i can't help it. but life goes on.u shouldnt b emotional. the whole idea of risk-reward is that sometimes u lose. u cant always win, that would b risk-free, very low return, of course.

thanks for the encouragement.while we do subscribe to the risk-reward theory, i see a number of problems systematically:1. lack of transparency to investors;2. firms' risk management capability;3. ceo should be held more accountable to investors. Given the size of his payout, this shouldn't be too much to ask;i bet the list can grow much larger and all of these are subject to debate as well.if you look back on the news report in June before LEHMAN released their quarterly earning, you would see they really didn't feel they were at risk at that time.when you review the transcript of last wednesday's conference call, you now would say they already knew things could be ugly. well, this is what i call lack of transparency.anyway, this is going to be a lesson to a lot of people.

I liked the commentary below on Bloomberg:Here's Why Dick Fuld Isn't Saying He's Sorry: Jonathan Weil2008-09-16 23:05:00.0 GMTCommentary by Jonathan Weil Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Finally, Richard S. Fuld Jr. got smart. He shut up. It's been almost two whole days since Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. filed the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history. And there's been not a public word from The Chairman. No apologies.No regrets. No word of thanks, or even goodbye, to the thousands of employees bound to lose their jobs. ``Where's Dick?'' has become a hot question. And you know what? It's the wrong one. The better question is: Why would this man say anything now?Nobody believed him a week ago when he told conference-call listeners that Lehman had ``quickly de-risked'' itself. Likewise, nobody would believe him if he blasted out an e-mail, telling Lehman's investors and employees -- and for that matter, the world -- he's sorry. Besides, every minute the man might spend pondering how to appropriately apologize represents another few million dollars that Lehman's toxic real-estate portfolio is declining in value.Time is money. And he just doesn't have the time now. Sure, when CEOs blow it this badly in places like Japan, they go and bow before the public to demonstrate their shame and humility. This isn't Tokyo, though. Didn't you see all the Asian banks in Lehman's bankruptcy filing holding Lehman's debt? In this country, our CEOs do things that make the Japanese CEOs bow.And then we glorify them for it. $500 Million Man This is a guy who took home almost half a billion dollars in cash from sales of Lehman stock he received during his 14-year tenure as Lehman's chairman and chief executive officer, according to calculations by Allan Sloan and Roddy Boyd at Fortune magazine. (That's pretax and doesn't include cash pay.) That means he can strategize for the long term. There's still been no word of any civil or criminal investigation into Lehman's collapse by the Securities and Exchange Commission or the Justice Department. It's bound to happen, though, even if it requires a presidential election to get one started. Fuld has already been summoned to a U.S. House committee to start explaining what happened. In light of those prospects, you might say Fuld's decision to stay on the job all this time -- yes, he still has his job -- is an exercise in courage. Dumb courage, perhaps. Let there be no doubt, however, that the man knows how to take risks, and that he will be generously compensated for taking them. Second Act So what's next for Dick Fuld? First, let's establish, he will have a chance at a future, or at least a lavish retirement.Again, this is America, where Britney Spears can always stage a comeback, Michael Milken is hailed as a philanthropist, and even Marion Barry can get re-elected mayor of our nation's capital. All Fuld needs is a plan, which brings us to the first thing any competent public-relations expert would immediately advise:Dick, shave your head. Go on a crash diet, too. These things will engender sympathy among people who hate you, even though they don't know you. Some tabloid photographer is bound to catch you walking out of one of your homes one day. When people see your picture, you want them to be asking: ``Is he sick?'' Not: ``Why is he showing his face in public?'' Eventually, as the years of investigations and class-action litigation drag on, journalists will be itching for a new Dick Fuld angle, the real story. So give them one. Find a disease, some form of cancer preferably, and start a foundation. Throw some money at it, maybe $25 million, enough to look like a lot to someone in a jury pool, but not so much that you'd notice it was gone. Start the Fuld Award. Give out $25,000 checks to underpaid elementary school teachers. Go on ``60 Minutes'' to talk about it. Just make sure the reporter agrees to ask only about the importance of education. All this is another way of saying: There may be a way out of this for Dick Fuld, or at least his reputation. Or maybe there's a simpler, less elaborate explanation for Fuld's silence. Maybe, just maybe, he's scared. (Jonathan Weil is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

Any idea guys about that will be the recovery value ? much lozer than Refco

As far as I am aware, being discussed in the market. As pretty much everyone has exposure then it is proving to be a nasty knot to untangle.

Have we ever seen something with a recovery rate of 0 ?