i have secured a position as quant with an energy firm. the position is close to trading but also involves risk work.financially the offer is unattractive. i want to do energy but not at all cost. someone from career services at my school strongly advisedagainst accepting the offer now and renegging later if sth better comes along. the person said that this could really hurt my career.is this view shared here? i mean this is amercia where companies hire and fire at will. i am surprised candidatesare supposed to meet an ethical standard that an employer is not expected to meet.

i was thinking of going to work for an energy firm (don't know which) in houston afetr doing a mfe, so your post sort of dissapoints me. Could you give me an idea of what kind of offer it was (ball park?) at least 80k? Do you have a masters in quant finance/financial engineering?Thanks.Oh btw, how are other potential employers going to find out you renegged? Better not to renegge, but even better not to take a job you don't want.

It's very rude to accept an offer and not show up on day one. The reason for this is that it takes a non-trivial amount of work to get someone set up, and also you've put the employer in the very awkward position of having turned away all of the other people they could have hired to take your place. Also the quant world is rather small, and you do run the risk of meeting someone you annoyed later on.Also from a career point of view, it doesn't make much sense to take an offer and not show up. If it looks possible that you will get a better offer, then the optimal thing to do is to tell the employer that fact, and see if they will sweeten their offer. If you have do have any other leads, then you can take your offer and then go to your other leads and see if they can give you a better offer. If you have no other leads, then it's rather unlikely that you will get something between the time you accept the offer and the start date.Also, if you do show up on day one, then nothing keeps you from giving two weeks notice later on, if something better does come up. As far as ethics, one of the worst things that you can do to someone in the business world is to waste their time and energy or to say that you'll do something and then not do it.

As Walter said to the Dude, it's not 'Nam, there are rules. The employer _is_ expected to meet ethical standards - after all, they just extended you a binding offer that they cannot now renege upon, so you can decide whether to accept it or not. I would certainly not ever want to employ anyone who accepted and then reneged on an offer somewhere, because how can you trust them after that? Trust is a vital coin in this business.Showing up and quitting after a week would also look quite bad - the bottom line is, if that's not an offer you couldn't accept happliy or at least contentedly, negotiate to see whether they up it (and be clear you won't accept as is), and if they don't up it enough, look for a better one. Playing the recruitment game well is one thing, trying to game people is another.

Seems to me that icon has been listening to too many arts majors who regard socialism as a good idea.i mean this is amercia where companies hire and fire at will.Yes, that is the nature of some employment contracts.You can also resign at will, so there is symmetry.But the important term here is "contract", you freely agree to do some things, and in return they agree to do things, including give you money.Within that is notice period, and when (if) you get a more senior job, an employer may offer you terms that make it harder for them to drop you, in return for some protection against you just walking.Thus there is no inherent "ethics" beyond both sides honouring their agreement.I am surprised candidates are supposed to meet an ethical standard that an employer is not expected to meet. Actually, most employers meet that ethical standard, even though there is no legal coercion to do so.Recently a mid level manager bank did indeed renege upon an offer, and you have no idea how spitting angry the high ups were at this.They felth that this had hurt the image of their bank something they value really really highly.An image of being trustworthy is worth good money, just as breaking your word can cost you real money.

interesting. will the new employee feel unhappy in case they know you reneged an offer even just because you like them better? but i suppose the new employee won't change their offer just for this, especially after you join the firm.

I was interested about whether people's views icon's original question have changed in the current conditions?suppose someone gets canned and signs a contract for a job. Its not a great job but one that will pay the bills in this time of uncertainty and impending doom etc. And lets suppose not signing was not an option due to an exploding contract. If they are subsequently offered a "decent" job from somewhere else what would you recommend? would turning up on the first day and then resigning put them on a black list? thanks for any input

There is no general answer. If you can't figure out this basic decision based on the specifics of your situation, I don't know what your brain is good for.This can't happen much unless the second employer takes a while. Since you applied before you got the offer, and they didn't respond before you accepted the offer. If someone wants to take a while, I would say screw that person. They are already costing you, before they have even paid you. I would bust up that relationship instantly and never waste my time talking to them again.I would decide if I want the existing offer, then inform the other people them I am no longer interested if they don't provide an answer instantly.It seems a strange career decision, to get into an area where there are so few employers that you can't turn down a job you don't really want. Can you imagine a surgeon having this problem with patients, or a lawyer having this problem with clients, or a grocer having this problem with customers?If you spent years and many thousands of dollars on college, and then there is only one (or zero), maybe two people who can enable you to do what you want, it seems you are pretty dumb. What a waste of time if you can't even get one offer doing what you envisioned yourself doing.

show up to work the first day in drag: they'll pay you not to come back !

farmer - Thanks for the input. actually generally I would agree with you if you can't back yourself to get a job after x years experience $y education etc then probably you're in the wrong sector in the first place. However many people are saying that these are unprecedented conditions or at best once in a lifetime. The media are saying there may be a 110,000 job losses next year (in london finance). That number might be completely without basis in evidence. But isn't it possible that an individual may put their family and obligations above career aspirations in the short term? You're probably more experienced than most but to me it *feels* like I can't turn down a job at the moment even if the reality is that I might be able to. If I have kids and a mortgage and a certain amount of savings I might last 6 months but not 9 months say. Its not like I have statistical proof of it one way or the other - only uncertainty. I've met a grocer who's business failed due to a tesco metro and ended up minicabbing in the evenings. To me its not such a ridiculous notion. Yes everyone will get another job eventually but different people have different resilience to going without one.Anyway I can't really go into the specifics of the situation I'm describing, only that there was no real choice about the person turning down a sure thing in favour of trying their resume out in a frantic job market. Your recommendation is useful though I'd still be interested in finding out whether resigning straight after joining would damage your career - in the current market.ppauper - dunno man - they may just promote me in a fit of affirmative action!

Well, you would be in my neighborhood, but frankly, you could get away with doing this given the current activity with little harm since you are too small to be important added in with the current volatility in the market. However, you could miss out on some very interesting work.

QuoteOriginally posted by: albertmillsi was thinking of going to work for an energy firm (don't know which) in houston afetr doing a mfe, so your post sort of dissapoints me. Could you give me an idea of what kind of offer it was (ball park?) at least 80k? Do you have a masters in quant finance/financial engineering?Thanks.Oh btw, how are other potential employers going to find out you renegged? Better not to renegge, but even better not to take a job you don't want.Albert, Energy is a small arena in some sense, so there is a lot of talk between companies. I think your expectations of 80k might be hard to meet.

80 k is hard to meet? Really? Is that because starting comp. in energy is generally low, or because of market conditions or because you think I suck?Does comp. increase quickly in energy if it's low to start with? If 80k is hard to meet and you can't grow quickly what's the point?