Look, it is really quite simple. People who do not have a PhD will say that the PhD is useless and a waste of time. People who have a PhD will say that the PhD degree is very vauable and is necessary to work in the Finance field. I guess that the best thing to do is to see the educational qualifications of the people who have been successful in the Finance field. I think that very few people have been successful with only a Bachelor degree. Even with a Master degree, you hit the ceiling very early in the career and then it is difficult to move up from there. Mostly the PhDs will move to the top of the hierarchy.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: AndyNguyenWhat I am missing here I: thinking through the consequences of this situation. Less PhDs in physics ==> less inventions, less..... less cheap&disposable labor for tenured researchers!

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Look, it is really quite simple. People who do not have a PhD will say that the PhD is useless and a waste of time. People who have a PhD will say that the PhD degree is very vauable and is necessary to work in the Finance field. I guess that the best thing to do is to see the educational qualifications of the people who have been successful in the Finance field. I think that very few people have been successful with only a Bachelor degree. Even with a Master degree, you hit the ceiling very early in the career and then it is difficult to move up from there. Mostly the PhDs will move to the top of the hierarchy.I understand.So when people on this forum advise against taking a PhD for career purposes, they are wrong? What evidence do you have to say that a PhD can make a difference in one's career?I ask because actually I'm still undecided if going for one or not.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Look, it is really quite simple. People who do not have a PhD will say that the PhD is useless and a waste of time. People who have a PhD will say that the PhD degree is very vauable and is necessary to work in the Finance field. I guess that the best thing to do is to see the educational qualifications of the people who have been successful in the Finance field. I think that very few people have been successful with only a Bachelor degree. Even with a Master degree, you hit the ceiling very early in the career and then it is difficult to move up from there. Mostly the PhDs will move to the top of the hierarchy.I understand.So when people on this forum advise against taking a PhD for career purposes, they are wrong? What evidence do you have to say that a PhD can make a difference in one's career?I ask because actually I'm still undecided if going for one or not.I think TJ is referring to prospects with a PhD in the quant arena. Those against PhDs on this forum, regret getting PhDs because they are forced to work as quants, and would rather have not done it, and gone straight into finance, in a non-quant job.

Thanks for the reply. I see.But I like being a quant, and yet I still don't see which added value I could get as a quant having a PhD. I appreciate that this happens because I'm young and I would like to know what the big guys think about this.

If you've done a good MSc in hard-core science, having a PhD won't make you a better quant (unless you want to do quant research, in which case doing a PhD is a valuable experience -- but you could gain this experience working as research quant, if you find a good mentor). In all cases, however, having a PhD is a career boost. It's like 1 extra year of experience in terms of respect shown to you. People do treat you with more respect when you have a PhD.

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsThanks for the reply. I see.But I like being a quant, and yet I still don't see which added value I could get as a quant having a PhD. I appreciate that this happens because I'm young and I would like to know what the big guys think about this.Bear in mind, as much as many sales/trading people think they know the models, it is for many (but not all) fairly superficial, when people are in this situation they need the assurance and the gravitas that the tech guy/quant having a PhD affords.

The reason people felt too comfortable taking risks when assurred by PhDs was one of the reason for the economic crisis.Maybe its the time now for enough transparency in products that even bachelors can understand.

QuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJThe reason people felt too comfortable taking risks when assurred by PhDs was one of the reason for the economic crisis.Maybe its the time now for enough transparency in products that even bachelors can understand.How about quality Bachelors or more highly qualified people who haven't been hired for various "other" reasons who can understand them. People always complain about complexity and the need to reduce it, but the world is complex, and yes some of te products are too complex, but to go back to the financial stoneage because we only want to hear college athletes or golf players to work in the front office.... Comeon...

QuoteOriginally posted by: AbhiJThe reason people felt too comfortable taking risks when assurred by PhDs was one of the reason for the economic crisis.Maybe its the time now for enough transparency in products that even bachelors can understand.I would love to see this argument applied to bridge building or car design.

Devon Fangs -> If you want to work as a quant, it is pretty much necessary to have either a relevant financial masters or a PhD. My advice for going the PhD way is very simply one of money. I think it is absolutley *non-sense* to pay 50+ grand per year for two years for a (cheap) masters. Why? All the financial masters are *industry*. As such, when you complete it you are competing with bazillions of people with the same education. Your chances are necessarily small. Sure, it all goes down to personality and a bit of luck, at the end of the day. But are you sure *you* will be able to make it? Not saying you won't, don't get me wrong. But you *will* have to bust your ass alot. And you have a massive debt making things more complicated.If you go for a PhD, on the other hand, you get paid as opposed to paying. Sure, it's not a lot, but the difference is *massive*. Plus, as others said, it can be very rewarding - not financially, obviously. And then pick a topic that will develop skills you could use in finance. People on here will be glad to help, I'm sure.At the end, I think it's down to personality. If you are a "risk taker/speculator", you'll go for the quick, masters way. Risk big, win big and quick. If you're a "hedger", you'll go for the safer way. Think what suits your personality best. Your chioce will follow. And by my comment above, you could tell I'm more of a hedger.As for me, I just completed a PhD. I wanted an academic career, which didn't work out. Now working in finance - pretty satisfied with it - and if I didn't have my PhD I would have *not* got the job, as they were looking for PhD's specifically...

QuoteOriginally posted by: mynetselfIf you go for a PhD, on the other hand, you get paid as opposed to paying. Sure, it's not a lot, but the difference is *massive*.What about 3-4 years foregone earnings?

QuoteOriginally posted by: TinManQuoteOriginally posted by: mynetselfIf you go for a PhD, on the other hand, you get paid as opposed to paying. Sure, it's not a lot, but the difference is *massive*.What about 3-4 years foregone earnings?LOL!

QuoteOriginally posted by: TinManQuoteOriginally posted by: mynetselfIf you go for a PhD, on the other hand, you get paid as opposed to paying. Sure, it's not a lot, but the difference is *massive*.What about 3-4 years foregone earnings?assuming you could get a quant job without PhD (very strong assumption at least for today!) you would definitely have made more money in those 3-4 years compared to a poor PhD scholarship. But then you might easily be replaced with a fresh & cheap PhD guy (or two PhDs!).I personally believe no MSc or BSc could ever be taught to do a proper research regardless how many years of experience he has. PhD study is supposed to teach you how to do research (so you are studying), in a bank you are supposed to produce results (you are not studying).

Hmm, I did a PhD but I can't say I know how to do proper research