If you count postdocs, it's even less than 12k. Starts at 12k for lecturers and everything I'm pulling is from math and it's not that far off for all the other sciences, if anything it's even less for humanities. A lot of fresh phds would take this understandably if it leads to greener pastures in academia. Why anyone who got there phd from before 2000 would continue doing this is less obvious, but they account for a significant portion of the lecturers/adjuncts. Sometimes it's a bruised ego, other times they just rather work in university and they would do pretty poorly in finance I think. I'm sure business is higher but they only graduate 3-4 per school a year according to you and there are a lot less finance phd programs to begin with. I'm saying UC because it's public and all salaries are listed online but it seems you're saying UCLA and Berkeley because they are the only ones you looked at. 65k is one of the highest this year for assistant track and to get a assistant track at a UC fresh out of phd is equivalent to winning a small lottery, or any top 50 programs. and don't say these figures are low because california is getting flushed down the toilet, the UC's are completely sound. You're seriously misleading people with your 180k, didn't people already post numbers contrary to your claims several times. yes quantinenergies phd or the UCs especially provide many prospects outside of opportunities to finance but that's not the point. I would easily slave away for some years for nothing if I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that it will land me at a UC or any SLAC (woudn't do that for any of the companies you mentioned). However, these questions are asked by people who specifically want to get in finance and nothing more. It's not the same as doctors going to med school because they know they want to be doctors, they will easily pay exorbitant tuition because in the end it's worth it. Doctors vs nurses is also a bit drastic. If you want to be a quant and know how much work a phd is and still want to do it, sure do it. A lot of people ask questions like should I do a phd specializing in pde so I can answer some questions on interest rate models during interviews. if you get in a math phd and do pdes, you will spend a few semesters on functional analysis and operator algebras before they even define for you what a pde is. Then it's all geared towards existence and uniqueness and classifications and you will want to kick yourself in the nuts.

traderjoe you repeatedly glamorize the phd as if these figures you posted are a sure thing provided you get in and finish. I'm happy it worked out for you but people read it and think they are gonna make 180k 5 years from now, or they could pay some money for a mfe and be looking at the above stats in a year and half. You can check out chronicle of higher education forums where a lot faculty hang out, there are frequent posters with high octane phd degrees asking how to get by on their salaries and some asking for information on soup kitchens and getting on unemployment. It's a tough and unsightly journey compared to what the mfe can do for you if you are trying to get in finance. I'm just saying don't commit easily.

QuoteOriginally posted by: nov1cetraderjoe you repeatedly glamorize the phd as if these figures you posted are a sure thing provided you get in and finish. I'm happy it worked out for you but people read it and think they are gonna make 180k 5 years from now, or they could pay some money for a mfe and be looking at the above stats in a year and half. You can check out chronicle of higher education forums where a lot faculty hang out, there are frequent posters with high octane phd degrees asking how to get by on their salaries and some asking for information on soup kitchens and getting on unemployment. It's a tough and unsightly journey compared to what the mfe can do for you if you are trying to get in finance. I'm just saying don't commit easily.Dude, just to clear your doubts, I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE PhD student from the Business School at UC-Berkeley and UCLA will receive at least 3-4 tenure track job offers from USA Business School with salaries in the range of $180 K - $250 K. There is no exception. No possibility of any post-doc. About half of them will turn down these tenure track positions in the USA with high salaries and will take up positions in universities in different countries around the world. The money-driven people will come to Wall Street and make millions of $.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976 Dude, just to clear your doubts, I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE PhD student from the Business School at UC-Berkeley and UCLA will receive at least 3-4 tenure track job offers from USA Business School with salaries in the range of $180 K - $250 K. There is no exception. No possibility of any post-doc. About half of them will turn down these tenure track positions in the USA with high salaries and will take up positions in universities in different countries around the world. The money-driven people will come to Wall Street and make millions of $.What are these PhDs in, and what kind of jobs do they take up?

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976QuoteOriginally posted by: nov1cetraderjoe you repeatedly glamorize the phd as if these figures you posted are a sure thing provided you get in and finish. I'm happy it worked out for you but people read it and think they are gonna make 180k 5 years from now, or they could pay some money for a mfe and be looking at the above stats in a year and half. You can check out chronicle of higher education forums where a lot faculty hang out, there are frequent posters with high octane phd degrees asking how to get by on their salaries and some asking for information on soup kitchens and getting on unemployment. It's a tough and unsightly journey compared to what the mfe can do for you if you are trying to get in finance. I'm just saying don't commit easily.Dude, just to clear your doubts, I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE PhD student from the Business School at UC-Berkeley and UCLA will receive at least 3-4 tenure track job offers from USA Business School with salaries in the range of $180 K - $250 K. There is no exception. No possibility of any post-doc. About half of them will turn down these tenure track positions in the USA with high salaries and will take up positions in universities in different countries around the world. The money-driven people will come to Wall Street and make millions of $.Is some business school paying you to promote their PhD program? You make it sound like people who would like to make several million dollars can walk into business school, get a PhD and cross over to Wall Street. Very encouraging but not empirically true.

QuoteOriginally posted by: TinManWhat are these PhDs in, and what kind of jobs do they take up?Finance, Accounting, Marketing, Risk, Real Estate, Management Science, Strategic Management, Organizational Behavior. Most take academic jobs. Some of the Finance PhDs take jobs on Wall Street. Some of the others join the consultancy firms.

QuoteOriginally posted by: mrmisterQuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976QuoteOriginally posted by: nov1cetraderjoe you repeatedly glamorize the phd as if these figures you posted are a sure thing provided you get in and finish. I'm happy it worked out for you but people read it and think they are gonna make 180k 5 years from now, or they could pay some money for a mfe and be looking at the above stats in a year and half. You can check out chronicle of higher education forums where a lot faculty hang out, there are frequent posters with high octane phd degrees asking how to get by on their salaries and some asking for information on soup kitchens and getting on unemployment. It's a tough and unsightly journey compared to what the mfe can do for you if you are trying to get in finance. I'm just saying don't commit easily.Dude, just to clear your doubts, I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE PhD student from the Business School at UC-Berkeley and UCLA will receive at least 3-4 tenure track job offers from USA Business School with salaries in the range of $180 K - $250 K. There is no exception. No possibility of any post-doc. About half of them will turn down these tenure track positions in the USA with high salaries and will take up positions in universities in different countries around the world. The money-driven people will come to Wall Street and make millions of $.Is some business school paying you to promote their PhD program? You make it sound like people who would like to make several million dollars can walk into business school, get a PhD and cross over to Wall Street. Very encouraging but not empirically true.I want to little bit back up traderjoe1976, and also correct his statements a bit.If you get to the phd program in finance at first tier business school, and you finish it with flying colors and nice job market paper, your starting salary (total compensation) is going to be around $200k in academia. That means about $150k salary and the rest is pension, travel grants and the like. Did you notice "if" there? Actually, they admit only people that almost surely do that. Getting to a b-school (UCB and UCLA's ones including) is very competitive, and you most likely need to schmooze your way into it, what takes time. Many people have some great master's before with flying colors and get their stellar professors to write their recommendations (you cannot do that on undergrad). Yes, then you get your pay-out, but I believe that if you made it, you can make a lot of money elsewhere.However, is your salary going to grow? You will have to work hard till tenure, and then you can try to follow the money. But, again, these are your political abilities more than your acquired-by-phd abilities. Not everyone can teach executive education, and teaching is not that easy as you think. Especially when you have a diverse set of people, as executives are. On the other side, I would not back up that you make millions at Wall Street for phds in finance. It can get your foot in the door, but it depends on your abilities.Now, what about economics, isn't it the same as finance? No! If you get to b-school, it is a little bit better, but count on $100k-$150k total compensation. Operations Research (sometimes called TOM) from b-school - $150k total compensation, the same as Organizational Behavior. OR outside the b-school - $100k, but if you know how to schmooze yourself into the industry, your salary can grow quickly above the finance level. Mathematics - $80k, Statistics - $90k, Bio-statistics - depends on school and needs, $100k. Of course, if you know how to get somebody give you consulting projects or grants, your salary can be much, much higher.The previous numbers are my estimates and averages for top-20 schools that I compiled by looking into the public salary databases. Don't take them too seriously or do your own due diligence. Of course if you are super-star, you get more. If you think that I missed something, please, PM me. Nonetheless, before PM me, please, understand that we are talking here about innate abilities v. education. You don't see the other outcome.

Why can't you get stellar letters from undergrad? Must be business because in everything else masters mean almost nothing. What are you trying to show with all these numbers. All these salaries you listed are assistant leading to tenure track do you know how hard it's to get those. Most likely you are not hitting these figures straight out of phd, add a post doc + some lag years doing grunt work and you'd be lucky to get those in 8 years. Also one thing the DGS at my school told me was that 4 years for a phd is getting increasingly rare. They had some 3-4 years but they've beefed up both admission standards and coursework requirement a lot. 5 is the norm give or take a few months and most of these candidates can pass the comps walking through the door or in 2 semesters pretty easily. 80/90 for math/stat are too high it's around 65k at UCLA and it's a top 10 school with a lot of future hiring in mind. In fact some of their departments refused to cut back on hiring this year and is snatching up a lot candidates from that area competing most notably with you know who. A quick look at uclas phd placement on their websites shows they claim 90% academic placement overall and no indication of tenure track or how many actual offers. and isn't that program ranked #1? I have a feeling majority of people who can't even tell the difference btw phd and mfe won't get in to begin with. Also pretty sure if you can get in the phd program at ucla you can get a job on wallstreet. Another quick look at some of the cvs of the graduate students will reveal a lot of them already have work experience in the financial sector. It is glaringly obvious that these guys want to work in academia...they are no different from phds in any other fields. MFE is custom made for these jobs I'm sure they've done more research than any of us and these results work, look at the stats. On a personal level I think you're gonna feel somewhat alienated if you going to a phd in a science for mercenary reasons. Academia's perception of wallstreet is rather dismissive and warped and you're not gonna fit in even with the first year cohort. Or you might not, this is just something I've noticed.

nov1ce, the numbers from quantinenergies are very much in line with what I know in academia. And his point about the slow growth of salary in academia is excellent. And to get into a top Finance PhD program straight from undergrad is very rare, and such candidates would very likely be able to secure an elite entry level position in industry as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by: dstefanPursuing an MFE or a PhD are first and foremost career choices. I would not recommend to pursue a PhD if one knew ahead of time the goal is to work in finance. Pursuing a PhD makes most sense for someone with aspirations for an academic career. Of course, while in the process of doing the PhD career goals can change, and going to industry upon graduation could be very good. Could you please throw some light on the exit opportunities and long term career of MFE students. There is a perception on this and other quant forums that PhD is neccessary for long term career in quantative finance and MFEs hit a ceiling. I am also planning to pursue a Masters in Operation Research before going for MFE. Do you think this is the right strategy ?

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