Hi there,I've been looking at quant dev roles for a few months and, from what I've read in forums such as this and a number of other sources, I think I would enjoy the role. I won't say much about about my background as that's not so relevant to my question, but I hope it's enough to say that I think I am about right for entry level (i.e. PhD + MEng in Elec Eng/Computing, strong programming background, i.e. confident in C++, e.g. templates, smart pointers, general object oriented programming...), and I genuinely enjoy programming - a good start, I hope.Anyway, background aside, I have seen quite different opinions about the QD role. One aspect I wonder about in particular relates to working hours - my question relates to these.My current role (not in finance or academia), which I have been in since finishing my PhD in 2008, typically involves a working day of around 9am to 6 or 6.30pm. There are some busy weeks when I will do more like 9am to 7 or 8pm for a few days, and occasional extreme days when I have worked until around 11pm.I mention this for comparison with what I have seen in this particular thread (which may be somewhat out of date now):http://www.wilmott.com/messageview.cfm? ... =According to some posters in that thread, a slow day was about 9-10 hours, i.e. not too far off my current slow days. The question is, what is the general ratio of slow days to tough days? If there is at least one crazy day (i.e. finish at or after 10pm) a week, for example, then I would find that tough in the long term. If there is more like one tough day a month or two, that would be quite do-able.Is it also still the case that QDs have to put in significant numbers of hours before and after a trading hours (which I assume is somewhat 9-5 in London, my target area), as stated by Dominic in the above thread? If that is in conjunction with having to work times in the day when the QD feels there is not quite so much to do (as also suggested by Dominic in the above) then I can see that could be a bit of a frustrating at times.Has the QD role evolved much in any other ways over the last couple of years? From what I have seen the QD role is a somewhat new one (perhaps started to materialise around 10 years ago?), and so I am not sure whether everything I've seen in older posts is still relevant... A summary of how QDs fit in with quants, traders, others, e.g. at your company, would be great to hear about.I appreciate that roles can differ very much from one firm to another (as well as within a firm), so any insight that anyone has would be useful. Cheers

I'm a quant dev (but do analyst stuff too). Generic work hours are 9 to 6.30 but it's flexible as long as you're there during main hours (my coworker doing the same does 7 to 4.30). I'd say there are maybe 2-3 days a month that I wind up working longer hours but it's generally more at my discretion rather then because there is a extreme business need for it. It's mainly just an extra 1-3 hours depending on occasion and might be deadline related or prep work for something that needs a long time to run and must be done over night or research for model development or coding for an existing model. I don't work on the trading system but am working on the infrastructure and model research + programming for trading strategy development. I think working on the trading system calls for more after and before hours work, but I haven't met those guys yet. I think it also depends on the deployment of the trading system, e.g. do you deploy a bug fix to London after hours and then need to wait for trading to halt in NY and deploy it there too. If Hong Kong discovers a bug during trading hours do you try to fix it before trading starts in London and so on and on. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that.I used to do similar stuff for a consulting/software company and there the hours were 9 to 6 with no long hours except when going on out of country trips to meet clients which was basically hours of meetings plus a regular workday; not fun.

In the US financial services industry, you should start interviewing elsewhere if you do a 9-6 everyday as you will be escorted outside by security before you know it

Thanks guys.Hansi, your work hours sound more than reasonable. Just a couple more questions: would you say that working on the trading system would involve more or less work on the mathematical side of model development than your role? Do you work with traders and analyst quants on developing new models, or is that something the trading systems QDs would do more on? Put another way, do the QDs working on the trading system do more on keeping the system up and running than they do on the mathematical side of things? Are entry level roles currently available in either of these positions for QDs? Either way, I imagine it best not to be too picky when trying to get your first position.Thanks mrmister, I imagine its the case that working strict 9-6 would be laughed at in the UK finance industry too... I'm not trying to look for those hours in a QD role, or any other role for that matter - I think you have to work harder than that If you want to do an interesting job.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jacdudeMy current role (not in finance or academia), which I have been in since finishing my PhD in 2008, typically involves a working day of around 9am to 6 or 6.30pm. There are some busy weeks when I will do more like 9am to 7 or 8pm for a few days, and occasional extreme days when I have worked until around 11pm.This varies wildly from group to group but most well managed groups have work hours that are more or less comparable to what you've mentioned. Any more then you are just wasting time, because code that gets done by a tired coder usually isn't any good.QuoteIf there is at least one crazy day (i.e. finish at or after 10pm) a week, for example, then I would find that tough in the long term. If there is more like one tough day a month or two, that would be quite do-able.Closer to once a month.QuoteIs it also still the case that QDs have to put in significant numbers of hours before and after a trading hours (which I assume is somewhat 9-5 in London, my target area), as stated by Dominic in the above thread?In a well managed group, no. Support issues tend to come up only during trading hours, and if you are doing seat of the pants coding, as opposed to calming working on the next release, something is wrong. Note that this is just for a well-managed group. There are some very badly managed groups in financial software development, but only slightly more than in other areas.QuoteHas the QD role evolved much in any other ways over the last couple of years?Something that you have to realize is that job titles can often be just marketing. Putting "quant" in front of a developer makes the job sound sexier, and a lot of it is marketing. On the other hand, sometimes it's a good sign when people are trying to market something to you. It turns out that a lot of quant development is just plan old software development, but the fact that people even to through the trouble of sticking a bow on a job, means that they want something from you.QuoteI appreciate that roles can differ very much from one firm to another (as well as within a firm), so any insight that anyone has would be useful.The most important thing is to remember that the interview is a two-way process. I've been in interviews in which the interviewer has the "abused developer" stare, and you can usually figure out from the interview whether people are happy with their job or not. If you talk to people that seem happy, and they also seem like people that are similar or who you want to be similar to, that's usually a good sign.This can vary wildly from group to group. I've been in situations where I see a other group in the same company, and thank my lucky stars I'm not them.

QuoteOriginally posted by: jacdudewould you say that working on the trading system would involve more or less work on the mathematical side of model development than your role? Less math. More plumbing.QuoteOriginally posted by: jacdudeDo you work with traders and analyst quants on developing new models, or is that something the trading systems QDs would do more on? Generally analysts, sometimes traders for input into the logical economics of the suggested model and their intuition about it.QuoteOriginally posted by: jacdudePut another way, do the QDs working on the trading system do more on keeping the system up and running than they do on the mathematical side of things? Yes from what I've heard. Twofish may be able to comment further.QuoteOriginally posted by: jacdudeAre entry level roles currently available in either of these positions for QDs?Dunno if there is much demand for people with little experience, I wouldn't trust them working with the trading system at least. I'm in an entry to mid level role with a few years of experience with software related roles and a BSc and MSc in FE.

Thanks guys, good to get your opinions on this. From what I've been told it's best not to be too picky about the first job, as experience is key. Hopefully with another month or two of preparation on the maths side I will be ready to get started in interviews, so I'll see how it goes.Cheers