QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaListen to Jawa, he knows where the secret hideouts of those sly Jews are, he could smell a hiding Jew through a cement wall or through a firewall.haha! it's funny you take offence here. 'asian' is reserved for south asian really. Turkish or Afghani people shouldn't qualify as asians, although technically they're from Asia. the same goes to you and me. i'm always confused with race surveys

QuoteOriginally posted by: edouardit locates close to LA china town and its noodle shops ?--Yeah, if I were Asian, I would not consider a place where I could not get a good bowl of noodles, and sit around playing Chinese Chess with old Chinese and Japanese Grandpas. That would be a top priority for me.

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehQuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaListen to Jawa, he knows where the secret hideouts of those sly Jews are, he could smell a hiding Jew through a cement wall or through a firewall.haha! it's funny you take offence here. 'asian' is reserved for south asian really. Turkish or Afghani people shouldn't qualify as asians, although technically they're from Asia. the same goes to you and me. i'm always confused with race surveysI am not taking offence. It's a funny conversation, has Borat overtone to it, just responding in tune.

There is a good point here. "Asian" to me means Japanese, Chinese, Korean, .... I don't think of Turkish, Afghan, or Indian (from India) as Asian. The cultures are different.And I don't mean anything bad by that. I admire each. It is merely an observation.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManThere is a good point here. "Asian" to me means Japanese, Chinese, Korean, .... I don't think of Turkish, Afghan, or Indian (from India) as Asian. The cultures are different.Indians are considered asians in US, because there's only 2-3% asians here. worldwide, it would make a sense to have a special category for chinese and indians, since they're almost half or world population

That makes sense. I don't argue with that at all. It is merely a convenient classification; that does not agree with the reality of the cultures. Indians are Indians. Chinese are Chinese and are part of the "Asian" culture family. Which is distinct from Indian culture. I think anyone who has had a lot of experience with the people would know that.I think the reason people think of Turkish people as "Asian" is just that Turkey is the most Eastern of all European countries. And when "Orientalism" swept through European art, it was fun that think of the Turkish as "Asian". I lived with Turkish girlfriend for a year, and she did not think of herself as Asian. You say: ".. to have a special category for chinese and indians...". No we don't, because we already have it: "Chinese" and "Indian".

QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusMan that does not agree with the reality of the cultures.i think in this case culture doesn't matter. the skin color does. that girl who lashed out at 'asians' probably meant 'slanted eyed folks'. racist are not interested in culture. hence, when you deal with racism you have to operate in the same realm: white vs colored. if there are many colors, then you start separating: black, yellow, red etc.quite hilarious answer to wallace

QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManI think the reason people think of Turkish people as "Asian" is just that Turkey is the most Eastern of all European countries.. 97% of the land mass of Turkey is in Asia (Anatolia or Asia Minor) and only 3% in Europe (Thrace) The division between Asia and Europe is debated, but under a frequently used definition the border stretches along the Ural Mountains, Ural River, and Caspian Sea in the east, the Caucasus Mountains and the Black Sea with its outlets, Bosporus and Dardanelles in the south. Europe does extend eastward farther than Turkey: think Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Russia which like Turkey have territory both in Europe and Asia

Oh, it occurred to me that there is a difference between the way "Asian" is used in the UK and the way it is used in American English. I am talking about American English usage.ppauper, I am talking about cultural groups, not geography.

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976Berkeley has 43 % Asian undergraduate students.Berkeley profileMost of the top ranked schools have between 35 % - 60 % Asians.But part of the reason is because the Jews also identify themselves as Asian ethnicity on the profile forms.Jews are 2% of the USA population, but 25% of the undergraduate population at the Ivy League institutions.Other Asians are 3 % of the USA population but between 35% - 60% of the student population at most of the top universities in the USA.Generally, if you need someone to do Math, you have to look for someone who is Jewish / Chinese / Korean / Japanese. Other Math people are French, Eastern European, Indian.For IT work, they have got a strong bias to hire Indian people.Even medical field is dominated by Asians. Even academia, but state legislatures are putting a lot of pressure on the universities to hire African-Americans and Hispanics. But very few have the qualifications even though the universities are desperately trying to hire them. Every year the universities are required to submit a report to state legislature telling the ethnic profile of the faculty. Every year the universities are desperately trying to hire more African-Americans and Hispanics.I've never seen a jew put asian on his college app. It doesn't make sense to further disadvantage himself, everyone knows that's the hardest bracket. Asians aren't better in math and definitely no evidence to support east over west Europe. If anything math has always been a largely anglo saxon game. The 4 most common language qualifiers for math being english, french, german, and russian with a slight edge to germans for their rigor and french for their ingenuity. QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManQuoteOriginally posted by: edouardit locates close to LA china town and its noodle shops ?--Yeah, if I were Asian, I would not consider a place where I could not get a good bowl of noodles, and sit around playing Chinese Chess with old Chinese and Japanese Grandpas. That would be a top priority for me.you underestimate the importance of a good noodle shop my friend.

QuoteOriginally posted by: nov1ceAsians aren't better in mathwtf?! grab just about any study, they're better in math than anybody.FCPS statsjust so you know Fairfax county is among the most wealthiest in US. Asians are more or less on par in English with Whites, with scores improving. there's this painful debate about the situation when the knowledge gap between White/Asians are Black/Hispanic is increasing US in general.read also about Tomas Jefferson high school (TJ), it's rated consistently #1 school in US by US News World Report, especially in math/technology. they tweak the entrance tests every year in order to block asians out and other non-whites in, it doesn't seem to work so far.

I'm talking about math as a whole and not math at the high school level. I know all about TJ, we have montgomery blair here and it sees its fair share of usamo qualifiers and half if not more are asians. Even though China dominates the IMO and half of US squad is chinese with runner ups vietnam korea japan, they are often outdone by sweden and hungary and a host of other european countries when it comes to the creative solution portion of the test. Sadly Russia has abandoned their penchant for elegance and creativity in order to beat China. Still I find the statement asians are better in math a misrepresentation and an undeserved indictment of our k-12 education system. If you look at asians here in the US, then yes but they are some of the brightest and most motivated.

There is a ton of statistics on that. There are SAT score, GRE scores, there are scores of people applying for the army. Jawa's link doesn't work, here is one example for mean scores for last 20 years. This data exists for much longer time, but qualitatively it is roughly the same for any test and any time period. Spread between Asian and White scores is 5%-10%, growing slowly with time, spread between whites and blacks is about 17-21% and growing slowly with time. These are among the most statistically significant numbers that exist in social data -- they are based on tens of million people testing several times every year. Quantiles are as stable as means.SAT scoresThere is a question on how you define math ability and whether SAT or GRE is a reflection of that. I actually don't think so, but you have to define it somehow. Below is a table of country ranking of winners of International Math Olympiads. Until beginning of the 90 this was the game of people from my neck of woods. Last eleven years Chinese were second just twice, otherwise it's numero uno. US and Russia are fighting for the second and the third. Korea is about 4th. Japan is about 8. Taiwan and Vietnam around 10. Germany is somewhere at 15th. UK is behind Germany. France is between 30th and 40th. IMO My post crossed with nov1ice

SAT and GRE are not enough to detect any inherent differences if there any to begin with, that is to say even if one race had a a mean IQ of at least one standard deviation above another. IMO is hardly an indicator as well I would say. It's bizarre that China lost to Russia a few years ago given their amount of preparation but it's just that. These exams are purely a function of preparation. I've spoken to french participants who said they were given very little training except for a few weeks attending some undergrad seminars at Ecole Normale and observing mathematicians at work. This is a great methodology for learning math in my personal opinion but it is of little use in a competition determined by practice. I think you should define one's mathematical ability the same way you do everything else, by taking a list of the all time greats and then plucking him somewhere in the middle. Is Yao good? yes, but he's hardly a Jacobi in the opinion of an esteemed faculty member at my school. Now working through everyone else worth mentioning, the idea that asians are better in math is conclusively hogwash.

Here are the average SAT scores for all the ethnic groups in USA:Asians: 1636Whites: 1580National Average: 1509Native Americans: 1444Hispanis: 1363African Americans: 1277These differences in SAT scores are all statistically significant.Average SAT Scores by Ethnicity