My 2 cents: Every country benefits in holding the EUR as long as:- Essential:1. A Common Treasury is constituted (say that 60% of GDP - from Maastricht - of each country will be funded by the Common Treasury at the same interest rate)2. Common Governance is implemented3. Common Budget Policies and Rules are accepted by each member country (States not complying with debt and budget rules should take heavy penalties)4. A country that persistently fails in complying with Central Governance rules could be forced to leave the EUR and the Union- Additional but not required:(Social Democratic Policies)5. Fiscal Transfers Policy6. Import/Export Credits7. Common Budget8. EU Economics & Finance MinisterBenefits from holding the EUR as a common currency with the establishment of, just, a Common Treasury:a. Germany and Northern EU countries will keep a debased but robust currency boosting their exports within and out of the EU - debased currency but not prone to hyperinflationb. If a common treasury is implemented the EUR will definitely become established as the world's 2nd reserve currency - Robust currencyc. Southern EU countries will benefit from a lower cost of funding, more financial stability, and a robust currency to buy commodities and equipment

greece was a time bomb waiting to explode, it is actually an eastern european nation that faked its way into the european elite via being the locality of the ancient greek empire. romance led to excess interest in greece by Western Europe and America. Greece thrived through its tourism and shipping industry, and while accumulating tons of debt in the early 2000s due to strong ratings of their banks then, the lazy greeks with their laxed attitude were spending money borrowed from stronger EU countries and retiring early. Germans meanwhile, continue their disciplined, hard-working and productive nature of party hard - work hard. Rather than just party hard (like the irish, greeks, and other PIIGS). Germany might inevitably be affected by the failure of the Greek system, but damn I'd be pissed off to bail out the lazy asses. Moral of the story : hard working people own the debt of lazy people, thus making lazy people slaves in the end.*phew i drank too much*

QuoteOriginally posted by: Caesariagreece was a time bomb waiting to explode, it is actually an eastern european nation that faked its way into the european elite via being the locality of the ancient greek empire. romance led to excess interest in greece by Western Europe and America. Greece thrived through its tourism and shipping industry, and while accumulating tons of debt in the early 2000s due to strong ratings of their banks then, the lazy greeks with their laxed attitude were spending money borrowed from stronger EU countries and retiring early. Germans meanwhile, continue their disciplined, hard-working and productive nature of party hard - work hard. Rather than just party hard (like the irish, greeks, and other PIIGS). Germany might inevitably be affected by the failure of the Greek system, but damn I'd be pissed off to bail out the lazy asses. Moral of the story : hard working people own the debt of lazy people, thus making lazy people slaves in the end.*phew i drank too much*There has never been such a Party in Portugal at least for the poorest half of the working population. The housing market, Big business and corrupt state-private schemes were the ones who had such a party.The EU has liquidated our industry and agriculture in exchange for cheap funding. A couple of years later after they got fat earnings with huge export credits they dry liquidity out of the country and demand a high premium to keep funding their bubble...Portugal could have had 3%-5% growth in the last decade. If the Germans and EU alies dry all liquidity from Portugal and force us to leave the EUR without support they should take a declaration of war in exchange. But I guess France will be the 1st to do it if the EUR collapses and their population sees their real debt doubling overnight while they have been importing tons of products from Northern EU. The PIIGS and France are better off either with a 1. EU Treasury or 2. an exit from the EU with debt repudiation to Northern EU countries and implementing trade barriers to imports + a national currency. This EU always in a "limbo" only benefits Northern EU countries which it seems now have always planned to break the EU when they wanted it.

QuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?

QuoteOriginally posted by: CRMsquaredQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?1. Incompetent Politicians2.1. Widespread social corruption - An almost aristocratic social network in the spheres of influence2.2. Secular Oligarch families in the top of the pyramid ruling the Economy in the "shadow" of politicians2.3. Oligopoly and monopolistic economy with incentives of the State - Lots of Businesses have entry barriers and there's no free will and free markets in a bunch of sectors2.4. I tried to establish a trading company and contacted some big firms that came from the public sector and are now privatized but owned by oligarchs. I asked for a price since I wanted do export their products and I received a complete - "Go to hell! We already have our only bussiness agent and don't accept any bids from you". So even if you're trying to buy from some firms they don't want it because it will ruin their agent business.3. Justice doesn't work. This fact drives Foreigners (people and corporations) out of the country and there's no willing to invest by foreigners and nationals in such an environment. Why would one invest money in this country if one day he had to go to courts and they would take 10 to 15 years to judge the case and in the end most decisions are doubtful;4. There's no respect and no sense of civic duties to other citizens;5. Bad education, vicious social culture. Here, people - including the Parliament Representatives - think the Government has the power to decide everything and that the majority of the voters can decide everything without respecting your individual rights, the constitution, private property, individual freedom, free will and free choice. Most People here could find it to be "legal" if the State decided to confiscate/nationalize their private assets; They find "legal" if the State doesn't follow the same laws that private citizens have to follow. The Supreme Court of Justice never makes a stand against the Government. There's no respect for some constitutional and individual rights and most people find it to be natural since the majority voted in the Government and they can decide everything they want. It means that people accept to be "owned" by the state!6. Huge presence of the State in the Economy allowing Politicians to nominate their "friends" to the top management positions and the friends of those friends to the intermediate Management positions and the friends of the friends of the friends to the State Services and the cousin of the friends of the friends to a nomination as a Public Teacher and so on and so forth. The most qualified can't reach the top management positions. It's usual to see a bunch of lawyers and engineers as CEO's of Public firms or as Politicians. All Politicians after their public service end up as Administrators of the Big Firms with whom the State did business deals.7. lack of cooperation and no sense of a Nation - after the 74 revolution there's almost no patriotism; 8. wrong choices taken by the majority - People allowed the EU to annihilate our Industry and Agriculture in exchange for big bucks for some people; no rules to prevent the concentration of businesses in domestic-only trade; no incentives to exporting businesses; an entire generation indebted the country to invest in the housing market without the opposition of Regulators and with the incentives of Politicians9. Public Sector expenses are now at 50% of total GDP and keeps climbing in this way eating alive the Private sector. 50% of total GDP is spent by the State but guess what! Portugal has one of the most unequal income distributions of all OECD countries. So this is not real "Socialism"; it's an Oligarchy and Masonic Aristochracy with half masters (those who are in the Oligarchic net) and half slaves (those who are out).10. Housing bubble11. Crime keeps paying off12. The EU framework which has provided for no trade barriers, no national currency - that is, a common currency - but no common treasury.13. EU instability. Portuguese and EU Politicians told us that the EU was a long-term project and that the EUR was irrevocable but now they're saying that it may not be the case!?. wtf! During 10 years the EUR is your national currency and it will be forever, 10 years later they're saying you may have to leave the EUR? So Portuguese creditors had 10 years receiving low interest rates and now can face a default because "wait a minute the EUR may not be your national currency after all?". It's like saying to Californians or New yorkers that they will be out the USD next week and that the Supreme court of Justice won't make a stand to protect private property from the corrupt State. 14. Huge income inequality which is anti-growth since really big capitalists tend to not have a "country" and move their capital out of our Economy. Low income people tend to spend in domestic trade which is pro-growth.

QuoteOriginally posted by: CRMsquaredQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?Portugal is an Oligarch Nation, a Tyranny, where the poorest half of the working population are slaves:The new income tax approved by the new Government: extraordinary income tax of 50% for everyone. It doesn't matter if you earn 500 eur, 2000 eur, 50000 eur, or 1M / month you'll all pay the same marginal rate of 50%. They demand the same level off effort for everyone.

QuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearQuoteOriginally posted by: CRMsquaredQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?Portugal is an Oligarch Nation, a Tyranny, where the poorest half of the working population are slaves:The new income tax approved by the new Government: extraordinary income tax of 50% for everyone. It doesn't matter if you earn 500 eur, 2000 eur, 50000 eur, or 1M / month you'll all pay the same marginal rate of 50%. They demand the same level off effort for everyone.50 % ? ! Aren't you afraid of a massive evasion ?

QuoteOriginally posted by: frenchXQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearQuoteOriginally posted by: CRMsquaredQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?Portugal is an Oligarch Nation, a Tyranny, where the poorest half of the working population are slaves:The new income tax approved by the new Government: extraordinary income tax of 50% for everyone. It doesn't matter if you earn 500 eur, 2000 eur, 50000 eur, or 1M / month you'll all pay the same marginal rate of 50%. They demand the same level off effort for everyone.50 % ? ! Aren't you afraid of a massive evasion ?I can transfer know-how from Greece, for the right price..

QuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearQuoteOriginally posted by: CRMsquaredQuoteOriginally posted by: BullBearThere has never been such a Party in Portugal Where did it all go wrong for Portugal?Portugal is an Oligarch Nation, a Tyranny, where the poorest half of the working population are slaves:The new income tax approved by the new Government: extraordinary income tax of 50% for everyone. It doesn't matter if you earn 500 eur, 2000 eur, 50000 eur, or 1M / month you'll all pay the same marginal rate of 50%. They demand the same level off effort for everyone.Well in my opinion there has never been in recent times such a gap between the Elites and the people they rule. Ask any referendum now and everybody would leave the eurozone. It's a class war. Why they let politicians vote such an inequal rule is beyond me